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Post by yongkim on Oct 21, 2013 8:20:54 GMT
First to answer Joel's question, I still do not find anything humorous about Kafka's work. I find Wallace's point very valid in that "The Metamorphosis" has some kind of humor within it, but it is definitely not the traditional, American humor. In fact, Wallace explains that Kafka's writing "is deeply alien to kids whose neural resonances are American. The fact is that Kafka's humor has almost none of the particular forms and codes of contemporary U.S. amusement. There's no recursive word-play..." When I think of a joke, I cannot help but think of Mr. Dodson's puns...the clever play on words that either evoke a chuckle or a shake of the head. However, a man who transforms into a cockroach and eventually dies in order to fulfill his family's wish is in no way humorous to me. Again, Wallace does a great job of explaining how humor is hidden within the situation and how certain people may find Gregor's situation funny. I especially enjoyed the line in which Wallace states, "That our endless and impossible journey toward home is in fact our home. It's hard to put into words up at the blackboard, believe me." The fact that our endless journey toward home is actually our home can be either tragic or hilarious depending on the circumstances and the individual who is realizing the situation. What I love about literature is that there is no definite answer. Unlike mathematics where there is a correct answer, literature's answers differ for everyone and cannot simply be "put into words up at the blackboard". Just because Kafka's story isn't laughable does not make his humor wrong in any way... it is simply A type of humor.
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Post by robertxu on Oct 21, 2013 9:17:29 GMT
Wallace's message is that short stories and jokes have much in common: they both elicit strong, explosive reactions from the reader because he/she can connect to it. Wallace continues to argue that Kafka's stories are inherently funny because of how literal and tragic they are. Wallace also thinks that non-Americans are inherently better than Americans at understanding Kafka's humor and themes. Wallace believes the point of Kafka's humor/themes is to "not get it" and the process of getting angry over "not getting it" has inherent value.
I disagree. A man walks into a bar and turns into an insect. Get it guys? If you don't get the joke, it is clearly because you are all thinking from a brainwashed, American point of view. I'm actually half Anunnaki, and all of the teenagers from my planet are rolling on the floor laughing at my joke. I disagree with Kafka's logic that something can be humorous if it is purposefully made to be dry. In that case, what would distinguish between a literal statement and a joke? I also disagree with him when he extends that logic into themes. Something does not have inherent value simply because it is impossible to discern meaning from. Value is a scale: for something to be valuable, it has to be compared with something that doesn't have value. Wallace is an English teacher's nightmare because all the slackers in the class would turn in poorly written, indecipherable, convoluted short stories. If the teacher asked, "What is the message you are trying to convey?", the student would simply respond "Exactly" and expect an A. I also found his hasty generalizations pretty offensive. Wallace stereotyped American humor and culture by calling it everything short of "vulgar" and "simplistic". Even though he claims that he is not saying that American students do not have a knack for subtlety, the rest of his essay implies otherwise. He seems to imply that students from different countries would find "The Metamorphosis" more humorous. I have a hard time picturing German students rolling on the floor laughing while flipping through the pages. Wallace also claims that "trying to get a few hours escape from the stuff that any decent college has forced them to think about all week" is distinctively the American way.
David Wallace, I'll have you know that students in Asia party just as hard after a week of cramming at university! I am offended! (Not really, but I am actually making a joke. However, my cultural education has limited me to choosing between "verbal parody" and "slapstick"). Personally, I loved "The Metamorphosis". I thought it was very meaningful and poignant. I did not need Wallace to tell me that the whole point of the story was to not make any sense, when it did for me.
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Post by billfeng on Oct 21, 2013 14:05:12 GMT
I really found the DFW article to be insightful. Though I'm still not definitely convinced that Kafka wrote a comedy, Wallace opened my eyes to the idea that I may have been trained psychologically to not understand the possibly humorous intent of Kafka in "The Metamorphosis". I also found it downright amusing that I've fallen for the path most students fall for when they read Kafka - that Kafka is just like any other standard literature. As a result, the experience of reading "The Metamorphosis" had been both an excruciating and long one, even though I somehow convinced myself that I actually liked the story. Maybe, it has something to do with the lack of German meaning being pulled through into English. Or maybe, this is what Kafka's style is truly like. I also enjoyed how DFW went a bit more depth into the meaning of what was supposed to be "Kafkaesque", which he said, "No wonder they cannot appreciate the really central Kafka joke -- that the horrific struggle to establish a human self results in a self whose humanity is inseparable from that horrific struggle." I was too human to enjoy his book in it's real context? Egad!
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Post by travistoal on Oct 21, 2013 16:01:42 GMT
I can agree with a lot of what DFW said about humor in Kafka's work. The problem arises when people think that he means that tragedy is funny, and then you get edgy kids talking about how cool they are because they worship demons and care about NOTHING. The humor comes from the literal showing of idioms, like "STARVED for attention," like he pointed out. In that sense, a story with none of the shock value could be humorous, but it wouldn't have the impact and lasting value that Kafka's stories do.
Like I said earlier, it is hard to explain this, because someone who likes the story because they look at it as a crude joke meant to shock, and someone who wants to look emo, might have the same reaction. It's similar to those who sympathize with the Misfit in AGMIHTF. Although I personally like Bailey and the grandkids, I view the Misfit as an antihero. I disagree with everything he does, but I semi-root for him, in that I can sense his pain and his struggles to rationalize his actions (not to mention his existence).
Even if Kafka wrote his stories with a tinge of humor, they were not written for the audience to laugh out loud, however, just as O'Conner didn't want her audience to vocalize support for the Misfit. With that said, it IS nice to look back on the text and look at Gregor's indifference as a joke rather than depressing ignorance.
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Post by cassiecumberland on Oct 21, 2013 19:18:57 GMT
I wonder if the premise of "the metamorphosis" turns readers, at first read, away. From experience, many people are horrified of nightmares. We humans much prefer lovely dovey puffy cloud dreams. I think this idea is what DFW most blatantly confronts. Think Bible Belt- do they read this novella? I'm not only curious to know, but I also *sorry* doubt it. We are scared of the unknown. We fear things that are socially different than were used to. Did you know like 80% of America is scared of spiders? I'm not and I'm the minority. WHY ARE WE SCARED OF A SMALL BUG? Because we merely admire and respect physical beauty? Not-understanding humans won't understand Kafka. DFW responds on that with: "he's a funny guy people! Come on!"
"Another handicap, even for gifted students, is that -- unlike, say, Joyce's or Pound's -- the exformative associations Kafka's work creates are not intertextual or even historical. Kafka's evocations are, rather, unconscious and almost _sub_-archetypal, the little-kid stuff from which myths derive; this is why we tend to call even his weirdest stories _nightmarish_ rather than _surreal_." I like not only how this sentence begin but what it says. We are scared of ourselves, DFW suggests by saying we can't dive necessarily into the text for understanding nor historical fact- we must dive into ourselves. WHAT A NIGHTMARE!
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Post by avinash on Oct 21, 2013 19:23:15 GMT
What I found interesting is that Wallace highlights how much the context (from experience and teachings) we are given for a piece of literature can really affect our perception of the work. Wallace assumes that there are similarities in everyone’s background. He says, “We all know that there is no quicker way to empty a joke of its peculiar magic than to try to explain it…” He uses the phrase “we all know” to suggest that there are universal qualities that all humans share. In this case, these qualities relate to how we approach literature. I think this is an interesting way to think about the relationship between the reader and the text. I feel that Wallace is correct in his supposition. Kafka’s story, when I read it, didn’t present itself as being humorous. Wallace would argue that that is because it doesn’t fit into the norm of what people in general consider funny. As much I would like to be able to read without any pre-conceived notions, it is not possible to do so. Kafka’s writing is supposed to seem peculiar because it breaks the “norms” of writing. Wallace says, “…that makes Kafka's wit inaccessible to children whom our culture has trained to see jokes as entertainment and entertainment as reassurance.” Society trains us a certain way, and it is not easy to rid yourself from the shackles of society.
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Post by hannahboe on Oct 21, 2013 19:29:47 GMT
My biggest concern with DFW's article is his seeming opinion that because American college kids don't understand Kafka's humor, they shouldn't read his work. I completely disagree with this point. In my experience, especially in this class, reading literature and then discussing it with a class is an incredibly rewarding experience. We are allowed to dance with the piece as well as everyone else's ideas and interpretations of it. These interpretations are different based on perspective, as we are beginning to discuss in class, and it is entirely possible that in any given class that reads something by Kafka, *someone* will have a critical lens which picks up on his humor. When this is the case, a class can explore the humorous aspect of Kafka's writing, much as they would any other and the class may end up with an understanding and appreciation for that perspective. Then again, they might not. Why is that a problem? And why does DFW think that the humor which *he* finds in Kafka's work is the end-all, be-all truth of the way Kafka writes? Because each of us has a different perspective/outlook on literature, life, etc. we see things like humor very differently. So why should we all find the same humor which DFW does in Kafka's writing? I don't think we have to and I disagree with Kafka's assertion that Kafka shouldn't be taught where his humor is not appreciated.
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Post by mitralebuhn on Oct 22, 2013 5:09:11 GMT
In my reading of "Metamorphosis," I definitely missed the humorous side. Sure, I found his descriptions shocking and gross in detail, and that his choices in character thought and actions make profound statements in regard to our reality and the way we treat one another. But, I missed the joke. As I look back at the story I still can't find what's supposed to be funny, besides how surprising it is that Kafka chose to make Gregor see himself as an insect over anything else. Maybe this is, as DFW describes, the fault of my American humor. But I don't think it is. I don't think the reason I am struggling to see the humor in "Metamorphosis" is because of my reliance on humor as an escape, but rather, because "Metamorphosis" is not Kafka's best example of his european humor. I think the example of Kafka's story about Poseidon that DFW discuses is a much more accurate sample of Kafka's style and captures that bittersweet emotion that follows Kafka's work as well as the almost cartoon-like ridiculousness that makes the reader laugh. "Metamorphosis" has the cartoon style, the bittersweet emotion, but for me, it lacks the twist that is necessary for the reader to say, "oh...that's terrible...but haha." So I agree with DFW that Kafka's writing is about that odd, sick humor, but I disagree that Americans cannot grasp it. It may be stylistically different from the American norm, but like Gregor does when he wakes up as a cockroach, we can adapt to the challenge set before us and figure out the message and appreciate the experience of reading a European work.
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Post by jamiezimmerman on Oct 22, 2013 6:05:04 GMT
Kafka's sense of humor is certainly complex in a way that is almost above my head. DFW seems to think that as well, that his humor can be deconstructed and dissected and analyzed and then replaced all back into the positions of functioning moving parts. Perhaps there is a very technical aspect to Kafka's personal sense of humor that we can examine through his writing, but we can also learn a lot about ourselves just by taking a step back and looking at the arc of what we have read. The Metamorphosis is about a man who has been turned into a bug. What makes it funny is the irony - the fact that we spend the entire time reading it and NO ONE considers why or how Gregor has been turned into a bug! And then we turn right around and discuss it in government-funded school as seriously as we possibly can and receive a grade that colleges will glance at and then proceed to admit us or not. How ridiculous does that seem? The fact that Kafka can poke fun at us without us even realizing it is what makes him funny. As DFW explained, we aren't supposed to "get" Kafka's humor, and that is precisely why he is funny.
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Post by shannonfender on Oct 23, 2013 7:01:25 GMT
In his excerpt, David Foster Wallace creates a pretty hefty distinction between American and European humor. I’ll agree that this division exists- and that this division is perhaps a byproduct of some tarnishing “cultural failure” on behalf of our society- but I disagree with the notion that this is somehow bad.
According to DFW’s assertions, the typical American comedian is the wise-guy who holds himself above the idiots around him. Contrarily, a European comedian (like Kafka) is subtler and can glory in the failures of society and of himself. This seems like a [somewhat] fair assessment. However, Wallace goes on to claim that our inability to see Kafka's funniness is because of our misconstrued understanding of humor. We, as American students, must “get” the joke in order for it to be funny. Our American mindset is a tragedy to Wallace, who believes that we must appreciate humor rather than look for obvious wit... And this is where his argument grows a little fuzzy for me. I’m not sure that the act of appreciation upholds the integrity of what humor should be...which is humorous. If we as the inept United Statesians cannot understand what’s funny, then that thing is by definition not funny to us. It doesn’t matter if our culture tailors people to react this way, because humor is elicited at an emotional level, not at an analytic level.
**This is just a side note, but I really did enjoy Kafka’s work in Metamorphosis. However, I did not find the story to be funny. A more appropriate word to describe my appreciation of the text would probably be that it was cleverly crafted in a way that could be humorous to some, but was not humorous to me.
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Post by chrisb on Oct 23, 2013 7:01:30 GMT
David Foster Wallace’s analysis of Kafka is very comprehensive. This became increasingly clear to me as I actively tried to pick a point to address from his speech. When he explains, “My point is not that his wit is too subtle for U.S. students,” I immediately jumped up with excitement. I was intent on writing a forum post about how Kafka’s humor is actually un-subtle. Of course, DFW continues, “In fact, the only halfway effective strategy I've come up with for exploring Kafka's funniness in class involves suggesting to students that much of his humor is actually sort of unsubtle, or rather anti-subtle.” I guess a great mind and a mediocre mind think alike (and I’ll concede superior intelligence to DFW).
What I gained from DFW’s perspective on Kafka was the simple notion of the literalization of a metaphor or expression. Not only does it provide many short story ideas, but it also allows us, in a way, to gauge the validity of DFW’s analysis. Is Kafka’s work actually funny (as contended by Wallace), and if so, is it a result of such literalization (as contended by Wallace)? To answer these pressing questions, we can consider a brief extension of Kafka’s tactics.
“I’m so hungry, I could eat a horse.” Now, imagine a story in which an emaciated man kills and consumes a horse. Obviously, this is a crude connection to the literature that we have studied. It does no justice to Kafka or DFW. Nonetheless, it is fun to exercise the skill of literalization, and it gives the reader some context in interpreting our own reaction to Kafka’s story. Frankly, I wouldn’t view the horse-eating story as a comical piece of literature. Does that mean “The Metamorphosis” was not funny at all to me? No. But is the literalization of an expression the only driving factor behind the power and purpose of Kafka’s work? No.
I’m almost certain this adds nothing to the discussion, but thanks anyways.
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shanejohnson
New Member
"Kindness is the only investment that never fails." - Thoreau
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Post by shanejohnson on Oct 25, 2013 7:15:35 GMT
Perhaps I am one of few whom actually found some humor in Kafka's story from the beginning, although certainly not in the full depth of what DFW is talking about. I was certainly not laughing, nor even chuckling, (it was really more of the blow-a-bit-more-air-than-usual-out-of-your-nose type of response to humor) but I did notice some inner "comic-ness" within the situation Kafka presents and the way it plays out. I assumed this recognition of some situational humor in Kafka's story was an unintended reaction; an observation about a story I expected would be fully serious in its purpose. Yet, I couldn't help but find some humor in the way the absurdity of the specific story elements play off of the seriousness of the broader situation.
I believe that pointing out my avatar (the little image of a glow cloud to the left) might aid in understanding my reaction to Kafka before I compare it to DFW's. The glow cloud comes from a marvelous, marvelous podcast called "Welcome to Night Vale," presented in the format of a community radio show for the fictional desert community of Night Vale. The town is constantly plagued by supernatural occurrences, conspiracies and other horror-invoking events. From that description alone, it might not be even remotely obvious that the podcast is brilliantly funny (at least to me). That is because the humor is not derived from the situations themselves - many of which could hold up as legitimately scary horror/mystery movies - but in the way the situations are handled. The horrific events are generally accepted by the townsfolk, leaving things that would seem shocking treated as mundane elements of reporting the daily news. Kafka’s relative shunning of how and why Gregor became a cockroach – or even that there is very little discussion of the fact that he is one, other than purely practical issues of his new body – reminded me of Night Vale’s style. My own observations aside, I did appreciate the points DFW highlighted and was moderately intrigued by some of his ideas. DFW certainly has a way with words and I was very intrigued by the duality between tragedy and comedy within Kafka’s work that Wallace discusses towards the end of his essay. I have yet to re-read the full story, but I would be interested to see how my focus on the story has changed with the addition of Wallace’s vantage point.
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