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Post by jessicalee on Mar 2, 2014 23:53:07 GMT
Anything and everything can be "political" if we dig deep enough. With this in mind, it did not come as a surprise to see that people would take "Dead Poets Society" and infuse it with political depth. Why can't we appreciate art for its aestheticism rather than its political message? Because the two are, and forever will be, intertwined.
Before I discuss the relationship between aesthetics and politics, I'll start by addressing my dislike towards Dettmar's argument. Dettmar argues that Keating teaches his students to think like him rather than for themselves and "while the boys are marching to the beat of a different drum, it's Keating's drum". This is extremely hypocritical in the sense that Dettmar holds the same level of influence over his audience, as Keating does over his students. Dettmar tries to convince the readers that "Dead Poets Society" exemplifies a lack of respect for the humanities and that "REAL" English professors, should be "respected for their analytical keenness rather than for their inspirational awesomeness". Dettmar demonstrates one of the drawbacks of Political criticism we discussed in class: that political criticism "confines 'quality' to the political opinions of the critic". We will never be able to achieve a universal definition of what makes someone a "real" English professor. Thus, it becomes impossible for us to step out of this subjective realm. If we all go about criticizing works of art because they don't match up with what we consider "real", then they won't ever be fully appreciated.
The relationship between aesthetics and politics is complex, yet simple. As Costello describes it, "[the aestheticization of political art] attempts to offer people solutions to real political problems by displacing those problems... into the realm of art". In other words, we look to art to solve our political problems, rather than to physical action. Or as Berlatsky describes it, "politics... [are] constantly slipping into aesthetics." The current infestation of memes, in part, can be seen as a reflection of the political views of society. Some people look to memes to spur political action, for example (as mentioned earlier) the red equal signs, or even the "Kony 2012" campaign. While I don't find this to necessarily be a bad thing- I think it's great that people have the power to freely express their political beliefs through many different mediums (or media- whatever floats your boat)- we must be careful not to take our political criticisms too far. While we are free to believe our own political agendas, we shouldn't shove them down other people's throats as if we carried the only qualified ideas, and every other idea was rubbish. Rather, we should treat political freedom as a privilege. In other words, keep an open mind.
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Post by racheladele on Mar 3, 2014 1:19:09 GMT
I understand where Berlatsky is coming from, in terms of aesthetics taking away from politics, but I think that he forgets some general ideas about the human race. There’s a reason politics isn’t straightforward, or black and white, and doesn’t use absolute language. That wouldn’t attract people or hold attention. If “Dead Poets Society” was completely realistic, it would not be as popular. The political critics in our class talked about propaganda, which has a huge aesthetic component. If propaganda posters and videos were realistic, they couldn’t have nearly the same affect. While propaganda (such as that from the world wars) is a bad example due to the hatred and spread of misinformation it causes, it is also an admirable example of the powerful combination of aesthetics and politics. Sometimes the public has to see something over-the-top to absorb the basic message, and this is true for both propaganda in general and productions like Dead Poets Society. This discussion reminded me of a picture I’d seen a while ago: if you can't read them, here's a link: www.adventured.com/funny-facts/dr-seuss-covers/Dr. Seuss is a very unique political critic in that he makes these issues into children’s books, but I do not believe that his choice of outlet diminishes the quality of either the issue or its message. Although he may have simplified the political topics, it is not done with the intention of oversimplification, nor with the intention of communication of concrete information. It is to draw attention to an issue. Dead Poets Society does the same thing. I defend these things against Berlatsky’s points because I think he is being too harsh, and that his eye as a political critic is analyzing things too deeply for their accuracy and specific, political value. I love the way Lauren put it, that although an aesthetic/political product may not reach out to some people, it is possible that the same thing will cause someone else to rise to action. We are all different thinkers, which goes back to the idea of politics being tailored to touch the attention of humans.
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Post by jennyxu on Mar 3, 2014 1:19:45 GMT
The article makes an important point that people tend to be swayed by the "feel-good" passions of aesthetics over the real facts and substance behind the message. Though, ideally, politics and art should not be so deeply intertwined, it is inevitable. The "O Captain, My Captain" example that the article provides perfectly represents the dependence of politics on aesthetics. As the article says, "Idolatry, loyalty, pageantry in the name of individualism and freedom — that's not just the basis of Keating's class. It's the basis for our political life as well." How many people vote for a president because they truly understand his views and platform? How many people vote for a president because of the trendy slogans and inspirational messages? As we view art, like "The Dead Poets Society", we must recognize this truth, that we often ignore the deeper truth by favoring a certain emotion that aesthetics provides us. But this recognition should not undervalue the importance of aesthetics for its own purpose. Aesthetics as inspiration, as long as it does not interfere with true understanding, can be a valuable tool for power.
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Post by avinash on Mar 3, 2014 1:54:38 GMT
A common trend in today’s society is the need to compartmentalize and simplify everything. For example, take the issue of voting. In our school we have many opportunities for students to vote. There’s ASB, winter court, etc. At first glance, it may seem like this encourages voting among the youth. The flip side is that we don’t understand the importance of voting because sometimes it is difficult to see the impact our vote has (to our school, in this case). The same phenomenon is happening with politics, or rather “mass politics” as the author refers to it. The idea is that quantity is being favored over quality. Aesthetic qualities are easier to consume than humanities. By this logic sometimes people will see only aesthetic elements concerning politics and fail to understand the greater significance as it relates to the human race.
The article warns about this “amateurish embrace of aesthetics.” I think it is important to understand that the aesthetics and humanities of politics are inseparable. Keeping this in mind, the way to adapt to the memes “eating” our politics is to have a sophisticated understanding of the purpose of aesthetics. In the modern era of mass politics, a central goal of many political parties is to garner the attention of the public. The easiest way to do this is to strike at people’s emotions and give them easily consumable information. I would have liked the article to go into more about how to combat this issue because it isn’t one that is going away. In my opinion, this issue involves humans going against their instinct to blindly follow what is put in front of them. This means fighting any laziness in attempting to analyze and understand an aesthetic element of politics. I think this will come more naturally if people start with an appreciation for the integral role politics plays on society. Politics is a force that can help and hurt people. When no attempt is made to delve past the aesthetics, politics will more often harm than help.
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Post by pjharris on Mar 3, 2014 1:55:56 GMT
Political critics seem to want pieces of art to cover everything. My stance is similar to Fiona’s in that I do not pre-possess understandings that a political critic takes for second nature, so maybe I’m just an outsider looking in. But I agree with points of Elizabeth’s that maybe these critics are looking at the wrong piece of art. Lacey’s comment, “Politics can be found anywhere, if you are looking for it” strikes this thought well. Though they do have some good points about the “need to understand the discipline of the humanities because, if we don’t, the humanities will continue to discipline us” (Berlatsky), I feel like throughout this article they are (to use my favorite analogy) trying to force a square shaped block through a circle shaped hole. *** Of course I have never seen Dead Poets Society (ghasp!) so most of the time I was just trying to follow along with all of the references they were making. And maybe, for that reason I am the one trying to fit a square shaped block through a circle hole. Does that mean my critiques are insufficient? I’d say not. If, by that reasoning, they were then whoever said that they weren’t good enough would be making the same statement that politics is only for those that are educated in the field which totally destroys the point of politics which is to challenge and elevate the understanding and actions of the population. And yet, I seem to be the one asking them to cover “everything” now. So then maybe my critique of their critique is rash and presumptuous and they are valid in what they are saying. And so ends the cacophonous and circular path of thought that is my every argument.
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Post by samwerner on Mar 3, 2014 1:57:36 GMT
Art is as political as politics are artistic, is what I took away from the article. To me, there appears a fine line between being a skilled political critic, and over-analyzing an aesthetically masterful piece of art to the point that it loses its value. It's far easier to devalue a piece of high stature that add value to one that lacks it, and that is why heavy criticism, political or other, is dangerous. I love the last line of Berlatsky's article, "We need to understand the discipline of the humanities because, if we don’t, the humanities will continue to discipline us." This sentence can be twisted to fit a myriad of different topics, and I find it especially homologous with political criticism. We need to understand the powers of political criticism because, if we don't, it could overpower us, thus devaluing things that shouldn't be devalued. Going along with the Dead Poet's Society example, political criticism is a two-sided sword, and it's critical that we, as critics, wield both. I found the article to show only one side of the sword, in which a view of modern political issues is used to strip value from a piece created outside of the time frame for the issues being discussed. However, the article did well to point out that "We live in a time when mass politics involves the continuous manipulation of aesthetics." In this case, devaluing the movie is done not for the simple pleasure of being highly analytical, but because, in a somewhat satirically aesthetic way, to point out that being an amateur aesthetic enthusiast "leaves you at the mercy of whatever enthusiasm, or whatever dear leader, climbs up onto the desk." Politics and art are somewhat inherently entwined, with the right amount of aestheticism invigorating politics, and vice versa. My conclusion after reading has left me with the same, slightly more informed, opinion I had before: just because politics are a part of art, and art a part of politics, doesn't mean they cannot be enjoyed separately. It is up to the individual to decide whether separate or together leads to more meaningful experience.
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Post by mattagritelley on Mar 3, 2014 2:05:34 GMT
Unfortunately, I have never seen "Dead Poets Society." While I will do my best to insert my own ideas based on the specific examples Berlatsky chooses to examine, I am hesitantly forced to accept many of his arguments as truth (for I have no prior opinions and thoughts of the movie to build upon). That said, Berlatsky's theories resonate with me in regards to his criticism of society from a political perspective; however, it bothers me how he goes about portraying this assessment and the generalization he extends towards all people.
Firstly, I wholeheartedly agree with Berlatsky's criticism of Dettmar, in that his take on "Dead Poets Society" entirely misses the mark of its political commentary. Even more so, his opinion subjugates the viewer to being entirely inconsiderate of the humanities and ignorant of its worth. As Berlatsky notes, only a humanities professor would look for an opportunity to blame others for "attacking" his profession.
Berlatsky's main argument, however, is the idea that aesthetics are beginning to blend into our everyday notion of politics. After reading the article once, this distinction seemed obvious. The more I thought about it, though, the more I began to realize that I could not clearly differentiate between the two terms. Why? Well, it seems as if the political messages in this day and age are more commonly defined by their outward appearance or face value. Berlatsky notes, "Economic problems, tensions between competing groups, discussions of political power, are all addressed not through political action, but through meme and symbol — the Nazi salute, the swastika, the inspirational film." While a conflict can result from the raising of an arm or a symbol on a shirt, what happens to the necessary creative and rational thought process? It's certainly not channeled into the structured political system. Aesthetics are slipping into the mainstream of political thought. That's why it is now up to the responsible citizen, he who thinks critically to separate the politics from aesthetics-- the easily dissolvable solute and readily accepting solvent, respectively. More than anything, this article stands to recognize how we, in our desire to be thoughtful, end up falling into a deceiving abyss of lack of thought: we follow others as opposed to questioning them. Politics requires thought, and thought requires discomfort. If we all want to break apart of the norm and shed aesthetics, then the only way is to teach free will.
But how is that possible? If one teaches free will, isn't he already imposing his own beliefs on the subservient listeners?
Absolutely. It's the paradox of the political system.
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Post by natalieskowlund on Mar 3, 2014 2:10:54 GMT
I feel I cannot adequately respond to this article because I have never seen "Dead Poets Society," and all of Berlatsky's main arguments are centered around events from said movie. Perhaps if I had seen the movie, I might agree with Berlatsky that it lacks the political correctness that he claims is so crucial to our society. Yet, basing my judgments off of Berlatsky's biased descriptions of different scenes from the movie, I feel that Berlatsky's ultimate assertion--"Inspiration without analysis is a recipe for gullibility, for cruelty and for an unthinking reaffirmation of prejudice as the self-actualization of the powerful"--lacks the depth necessary to make a convincing argument against "The Dead Poets Society," or the relationship between aesthetics and politics at large.
One of my greatest qualms with Berlatsky's assertions about intertwining politics with aesthetics is that his evidence is not upsetting to a reasonable degree. Berlatsky argues that "Dead Poets Society"'s attempt to bring politics into its plot ultimately weakens the enormity and importance of such issues by pairing them with humor or distasteful characters and incidents. His most emphasized example has to do with the portrayal of gender equality in the movie, and specifically, how the movie undermines the importance of the issue by making the main male characters interested in allowing women to attend their academy for the almost sole purpose of their teen sexual impulses. Yet, as a self-proclaimed feminist, I venture to say that Berlatsky seems more aloof about the issue of gender equality than does the movie he is so quick to indict. The reality of any socio-political issue is that being politically correct is often more detrimental than useful to the cause.
We talked briefly in class the other day about why we read "Huck Finn" instead of "Uncle Tom's Cabin." I believe it is because, although "Uncle Tom's Cabin" might be more politically correct for modern readers, its political correctness blinds its readers to the truth of the time--as much as we'd like to believe that most white people realized their sins and finally awakened to the humanity of African Americans after reading "Uncle Tom's Cabin," the bloody Civil War which soon followed the book's publication proves otherwise. On the other hand, it seems much more plausible that some white people--like Huck--had inklings that slavery wasn't right, and slowly but surely began to evolve out of their society's beliefs and into holding their own beliefs about race.
But back to Berlinsky's dissatisfaction with "Dead Poets Society"'s portrayal of the importance of gender equality, his inability to accept notions of gender equality that are perhaps a little unsettling or twisted is quite problematic. Although I have never seen the movie, I watched the trailer, and feel I can deduce that "Dead Poets Society" is hardly different than any other teen-male-bonding movie, like "Superbad." Sure, they have completely different storylines, but the emphasis on relationships between males and their adolescent lusty longings always prevails. Hence, for "Dead Poets Society" to use innuendo and sexual references while also advocating gender equality is no surprise, nor is it disturbing. To pretend like teen boys are truly mature enough to separate their concerns about the female species from their sexual attraction to women is unrealistic, and would not make for a good movie. Thus, the politics of gender equality in the movie is not perfectly satisfying, but it represents a general truth about one demographic's view on the issue, no sugarcoating required.
Lastly, a quote of Berlinsky's that makes me laugh reads, "When Charles draws a (supposedly) Native American potency symbol on his chest and begins to call himself “Nuanda,” the exoticism stands in for any actual discussion of race or colonialism, or of the fact that Keating’s Romantic curriculum excludes, not just the realists, but all non-white males, not to mention any discussion of Whitman’s homosexuality. Political differences and exclusions are transformed into the aesthetic accouterment of a feel-good pageant." Berlinsky evidently has no sense of humor; he needs everything to be a serious discussion of serious issues. But the thing is, "Dead Poets Society" is supposed to be "feel-good." Certainly, it is important for people to be aware of socio-political issues, but it is also important that we can escape once in a while to somewhere where we don't have to think so hard about everything. When I sit down to watch a comedy/feel-good movie, I don't look forward to being lectured about Walt Whitman's homosexuality or colonialism. I look forward to letting go, relaxing and being a "tired reader"--as Flannery ' Connor would put it.
As the famous song "Turn, Turn, Turn" puts it, "[There is] a time to every purpose under Heaven." So it goes to say that God won't be frowning down on me for taking some time to escape from the constant chatter of my brain and let an imperfect but fun movie lead me away from all the heavy issues we deal with in reality. It's all in the plans.
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Post by clairem on Mar 3, 2014 3:15:05 GMT
Before I begin to respond to this article I want to define the word "meme" because before starting this article I merely thought a meme was the kind of photo that had "Bad Luck Brian" or "Time of the Month Tiger." So without further introduction the definition of meme, for the sake of my response to this article, is "an element of a culture or system of behavior that may be considered to be passed from one individual to another by nongenetic means." Now I have never seen "Dead Poets Society" before but this article allowed to me dive in and create an opinion on the matter without actually having seen the movie and wow do I agree with this modern epidemic. It can definitely been seen in our modern culture that political problems and other issues of the humanities are being reduced in complexity from their original state to a simpler form for the general public to easily comprehend. While I find it important for people to know what is going on in the world I often find that it actually hinders our ability to be a progressive society. As the article touched on, in movies issues are often presented in rather shallow ways because they are trying to highlight the entertaining side of the problem by creating a slant. In terms of women's rights involving education it sounds like the movie, "Dead Poets Society" handled it as most modern day movies do which is focusing less on the objective of the political movement and more on what will entertain the viewers. In terms of modern day politics I have seen many occasions when important and relevant events are mass-produced through the internet in ways that almost undermine the issue at hand and undermine the public's ability to truly contribute their opinion to the problem. For example when Barack Obama ran against John McCain for presidency there were free apps that allowed you to create a version of Obama's campaign posters with your own photo and words. I am not tech-saavy enough to put in an example but needless to say it became a big deal around the halls of junior high school and all over social media and I wonder if this meaningless aesthetic campaigning that went viral allowed people that weren't very into politics an easy and mindless way to latch onto a candidate. This is not to say that Obama only won because of this photo/meme thing or that people that voted for him are mindless, just to highlight an example of an important time in political history when an issue was reduced to a rather shallow and merely aesthetically pleasing/entertaining image.
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Post by naomiporter on Mar 3, 2014 3:25:05 GMT
I have never read or seen "Dead Poets Society," so my comments are purely based off the article and mainly address the general topic of politics being combined with art.
The way I see it, there is nothing wrong with mixing politics and aesthetics in art, but we need to be aware and learn to differentiate between the two in a piece of art. The issue is when we as readers or consumers of art confuse the political message with the aesthetics and accept one only because of the other. As Berlatsky says, "That’s why amateurish embrace of aesthetics, which Dettmar warns about, is dangerous —it leaves you at the mercy of whatever enthusiasm, or whatever dear leader, climbs up onto the desk." I do not have a problem with using art as a means to popularize a political message, but I only hope that we as consumers can distinguish between political messages regardless of the art they are combined with. In the article, it sounds as if Keating is not a very good teacher just as biased memes or propaganda are not good teachers. They do exist, however, and we should know how to deal with such art when we come across it.
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Post by cassiecumberland on Mar 3, 2014 3:31:20 GMT
In many ways I, too, share Fiona's confusion of a lot of the foundational pieces of information that Berlatsky introduces. I didn't pick up exactly what was going on until the feminist criticism part as well. After recently reading this book, however, I find these ideas to be freshly compared in my mind. I see where the feminist critique comes from, but this book is about men. Not every book has to be about women AND men and certainly not every book is fair. Well...that's my argument against the degradation of women in DPS. No. But seriously, I believe that Berlatsky is looking WAAY too far into the curriculum and the itty bitty things. Overall, DPS is a "coming of age" story! Although politics are of course included in everything, doesn't the boy's treatment of girls reflect the perspectives toward women that real life people faced or had in that time period? Just because we are becoming (yes I say BECOMING we are NOT anywhere close to where we should be) more aware of women and their equality and roles in society, that doesn't mean we can just harsh on the good things that DPS teaches us because NOOWWW we're SOOO much smarter!! (noo we're notttt btw).
To me, this article seems like Berlatsky complaining about politics and randomly throwing DPS in as an example. I believe that the opinion came before the example and that doesn't lead to solidified evidence, at least for me. I see the merit in some of Berlatsky's points, but I also am not completely convinced.
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Post by hannahlewman on Mar 3, 2014 3:31:47 GMT
Art is a fabulous, efficient vehicle for political messages, even political messages we don't realize we are sending out into the world.
That being said, sometimes people enjoy vehicles for the sake of vehicles. There are car collectors who just let cars sit there being pretty and are satisfied with the knowledge that the vehicle once had the ability to drive around. They don't need to drive the vehicle, though. It is not used for transportation.
Art is an efficient vehicle for political messages, but vehicles don't always have to be driven. That's where this article's author, and maybe all political critics, think differently than I do. Maybe Dead Poets Society does suck for the reasons listed in this article, but I don't necessarily think it's fair to be so broad about the "takeover of America" because then you aren't talking about one car, you're talking about cars in general. The article has some valid points, but the author should watch the scope/scale of the argument, because it becomes a question of whether art should exist for art's sake, and there isn't really enough evidence in the article to argue that issue.
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alice
New Member
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Post by alice on Mar 3, 2014 3:36:32 GMT
First question about this regarding this quote, "Economic problems, tensions between competing groups, discussions of political power, are all addressed not through political action, but through meme and symbol — the Nazi salute, the swastika, the inspirational film". Why did they jump straight to WWII Germany TWICE without mentioning other "economic problems" or different examples? This part of the article set off my thinking that maybe they fell into the political criticism pitfall of OVER politicizing it, or perhaps at least a faulty comparison.
I think at the part discussing how the characters were sexist and appropriation of supposed Native American symbolism was more a look at what kind of people we were dealing with in the movie. These are how the characters are. I'm not suggesting that it's okay that they were like that and exclusive towards more open ideas but it seems to me, that's what they were. Maybe the point of those things weren't to provide this "political aesthetic" but rather to show what kinds of people these were and what they did. "Political differences and exclusions are transformed into the aesthetic accouterment of a feel-good pageant" I think is twisted because I do not believe that they INTENTIONALLY believe that the movie chose to exclude certain things. The article mentions that the curriculum excluded all "non white males" while that is not totally uncommon. Even our school is lacking diverse writers (which we discussed briefly in the feminist unit) and I think especially at a stuck up private school, they're not exactly itchin' to hear about Whitman's non conformist sexuality so actually, that would have helped solidify Keating's "break-from-the-pack" character.
Finally, I think that as long as people remain critical thinkers, aesthitics in politics shouldn't be too much trouble. unless of course it reaches the Nazi heights it so quickly referred to in the beginning of it's article (suggesting that the image will turn everyone towards that belief or at least inspire them to realize the way of the masses is safer). I did not think that standing on the desks in solidarity was a revolutionary act to kill the man, I think it was more to show their respect for the type of thinking that Keating offered them.
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Post by madisonarmst on Mar 3, 2014 4:50:50 GMT
I agree with Naomi that art and politics can be mixed to create an effective message. I believe that the aesthetics and political message must be examined and critiqued separately to ensure that both are interesting and thought-provoking by themselves. If a piece of art is held up under two different lenses, it can only add to its effectiveness. If a piece of art is both aesthetically pleasing and politically motivating, its "double trouble". It has the ability to question the human experience from two perspectives. This article questions whether or not a piece of art can accomplish that effectively and posits that it cannot be done.
Initially, I had no doubt in my mind that it could be done. As I began to think more about it, however, I realized that I cannot think of a work that has had great political impact, but is equally great in terms of aesthetics. In order to be politically effective, the work has to reach a large number of people. If the work is incredibly aesthetically pleasing with complicated nuances and intricate language, its doubtful that the work would be enjoyed by lots of people. If people are unable to fully understand the work, its unlikely that they would rally behind it. BUT, if the two elements can be combined it would create a masterpiece and aid readers in understanding the human experience from different lenses at the same time. Perhaps combining two lenses would eliminate the limitations and allow the work to explore many more aspects of the human experience or perhaps the limitations would be multiplied. Unfortunately, we may never know until, as a whole, we are able to understand the joy of reading a long, complex work, rather than seeking immediate gratification.
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Post by yongkim on Mar 3, 2014 5:30:19 GMT
The movies Anchorman, Happy Gilmore, and Yes Man currently take up a lot of space on my phone. In the eyes of Berlatsky, I should open up the storage on my phone for "better" movies: movies that have a political impact and are not concerned with aesthetics or entertainment. Sorry Mr. Berlatsky, but I will keep my collection of comedy movies. While art that aims to be political should be criticized with the political perspective, I believe movies like DPS should be left for entertainment and entertainment only.
Jessica brings up an interesting question. Why can't we appreciate art for its aestheticism rather than its political message? In some cases we can...as long as the message is not pointed out to us or we do not go looking for a political message. Whenever I think of a work that is both aesthetically pleasing and has had political impact, Fahrenheit 451 is a book known for both. However, I did not come to realize this until last year when I read it a second time. As a freshman, I was reading the book for the pure joy of reading and focusing on Bradbury's unique writing style. Two years later, I found myself reading Fahrenheit 451 for my junior research project, looking for the social issue within the work. Needless to say, I discovered the underlying political significance of the book (the consequence of oppressive regimes in our world) where I did not find any sort of political message the first time. The truth is that politics and art are always intertwined, but it ultimately comes down to whether we can successfully discover politics in art or not.
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