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Post by kevinle on Mar 26, 2014 2:34:39 GMT
This thread is for those who have been assigned the motifs of civilization and savages.
The general idea of this is Conrad's portrayal of the natives as uncivilized humans who impede the progress of the company and the efforts of the Europeans to civilize them. Reminds me of Avatar.
Anyways, post away about your secret dark deep thoughts about civilization and savages in Heart of Darkness.
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Post by garygates on Mar 29, 2014 18:00:30 GMT
Alright, I guess I'll just give my initial thoughts and some of the things that I observed concerning Conrad and his savages. My opinion, of course, has been altered after reading Achebe's essay, but I'm going to try to stay away from just concerning myself with Conrad's racism, because I think there's importance deeper into the text and the ideas of the novel that are limited by saying, "Oh, Conrad's just a racist."
Conrad's obsession with the 'savages' was quite interesting to me. As Achebe pointed out, Conrad could not seem to get over his obsession with their black skin, specifically when Conrad wrote, "A black figure stood up, strode on long black legs, waving long black arms..." To Achebe, this obsession with skin color seemed racist, and though racism may be a part of it, I believe that Conrad is just obsessed with the mysterious and different. I don't even think that the word "black" in this passage packs a negative connotation, but rather functions as a descriptive device to repetitively show that Marlow (like most Europeans imperializing the Congo) is overwhelmed by the foreign and new sights. Instead of just serving as 'savages,' the Africans serve as a mystery for Marlow, and as imperialism and history in general demonstrates, uncomfortable mysteries are something that man has naturally fought to conquer with force. We are scared because we do not understand what is foreign to us, and instead of trying to reason things out logically, the archetypal tendency of man has been to use brute strength to maintain one's distance and not get close enough to open the possibility of societal change. We are human beings: we are innately stubborn, and the least desirable thing in life is making uncomfortable changes. The savages, thus, are not an emblem of Marlow and Conrad's racism, though this point can be effectively argued, but are a mysterious entity that gives us insight into our own actions.
The most interesting parts of "Heart of Darkness" for me, were the parts of the story in which Marlow made a connection or a comparison (or implied one) between the savages of African and the savagery and animalism of the 'civilized' Europeans. This story was not a pamphlet about 'why we should not expose ourselves to Africans' but a novella concerned with exploring our fears about our own identities. The general idea of this novel is that we attempt to conquer those that are different than us because we are afraid of the horrors and savagery present in our own souls. Rather than fighting this idea, and subjecting ourselves to change, we conservatively maintain the notion that "different is bad" and reciprocate our internal fears onto others, claiming that the savagery is not within us, but inside groups of people that are different than us, such as the 'savage' Africans. In essence, the civilizing of Africans is a symbol of our attempt to civilize our fears of ourselves. Marlow seems to notice the similarities between the savagery of the whites and blacks in African upon his immediate arrival. Though we blatantly characterize the blacks as 'savages,' Marlow recognizes that the Pilgrims, as he calls them, (or the white imperialists) are even more savage and greedy than the 'savages' they are trying to civilize. The same goes for Kurtz. Africa does not force him to become a savage. The savagery and horror were within him throughout his entire life. His natural response to the savagery of others, however, is to respond with his own sort of uncivilized savagery, sort of leveling the playing field. The Africans are not any more wild or savage than Kurtz, European society just labels others this way to maintain a false feeling of comfort and superiority, and in turn superficially "civilize savagery" while all that is accomplished is just a temporary lie that attempts to comfort our fears of in fact being the savages of the earth.
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Post by kevinle on Mar 31, 2014 3:04:14 GMT
This discussion is just for the group, right?
Anyways, I agree with the notion that Marlow's usage of "savage" to describe the unknown. For example, he says, "Land in a swamp, march through the woods, and in some inland post feel the savagery, the utter savagery, had closed round him--all that mysterious life of the wilderness that stirs in the forest, in the jungles, in the hearts of wild men (4). It is easy to label a foreign nation as savage, uncivilized, different, and mysterious when one is not aware of the culture and tradition.
More mystery:
- "Before it stopped running with a muffled rattle, a cry... A complaining clamour, modulated in savage discords, filled our ears. The sheer unexpectedness of it made my hair stir under my cap" (34)
- "Unexpected, wild, and violent as they had been, they had given me an irresistible impression of sorrow. The glimpse of the steamboat had for some reason filled those savages with unrestrained grief" (37)
There is also the more literal usage of savage to describe something that is "not domesticated or cultivated" or "not civilized" (thefreedictionary.com). Whether something is savage or not is Marlow's opinion though, as he's telling the story. He generally labels all the natives as savages.
- "They passed me within six inches, without a glance, with that complete, deathlike indifference of unhappy savages" (12)
- The International Society for the Suppression of Savage Customs (44)
- "He began with the argument that we whites, from the point of development we had arrived at, 'must necessarily appear to them [savages] in the nature of supernatural beings--we approach them with the might of a deity'" (44)
- "'perhaps you had better go if you have any friends amongst the savages near by.' 'Plenty,' he said. 'They are simple people--'" (56)
To add to the discussion as a moral critic, I would say Conrad has done well to present a work that allows readers to explore the controversies of racism. Conrad does not preach; he presents a realistic story with multifaceted characters (for example, Marlow gives bread to the "savages" because he's a bit terrified by their sickly appearance from poor treatment). All of the characters are unique and complex enough to represent real people, making it reasonable for readers to connect with the morals within.
where are you, Patrick and Naomi?
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Post by jessicalee on Mar 31, 2014 3:26:52 GMT
As Gary pointed out, it is really compelling that Marlow compares Africa to Europe. I found it interesting that one of the first things we hear from Marlow is his story of when the Romans first came to England. He says, "I was thinking of very old times, when the Romans first came here... darkness was here yesterday... Sandbanks, marshes, forests, savages, precious little to eat fit for a civilised man, nothing but Thames water to drink" (5-6). Clearly, England was not the "civilized" place it is now. The Romans reacted to England in much the same way as the Europeans react to Africa-- as a savage, untamed territory.
Humans naturally strive for comfort. Often times, we are most comfortable with those who are similar to us. When someone is different, he/she is susceptible to judgement, whether that be supportive or degrading. Thus, when the Europeans see people who are physically very different from them, they feel the need to "civilize" these "savages". I completely agree with my classmate in that the Europeans attempt to civilize the Africans out of fear and ignorance. The repetitive nature of imperialism, first with the Romans in England and next with the Europeans in Africa, demonstrates that it is not only a matter of skin color (and white supremacy), but also a fear of the unknown.
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Post by patricktbutenhoff on Mar 31, 2014 4:38:17 GMT
Conrad takes the idea of savagery deeper than just the battles between the "colonized" Europeans and the "brutish" Africans, though. Remember, our group topic is "civilization vs. savagery," and if you look at Heart of Darkness, I think you'll find that a significant level of savagery exists in everyone in the book, not just the black people.
On the surface, of course, the Europeans are trying to bring civilization to the natives of Africa; in fact, the committee in charge of the entire colonization process is called the International Society for the Suppression of Savage Customs. Back in Europe, the white people (or perhaps it's just the women) have the same opinion; Marlow's aunt speaks great volumes about "weaning those ignorant millions from their horrid ways" (Conrad 9), and Kurtz' fiancee has, to put it mildly, an optimistic attitude regarding him.
Ultimately, though, we see certain refinements and savageries about both the whites and the blacks in the novel. Probably the greatest example of white "civilization" is in the "miracle" Marlow encounters early in the book, who remains calm and clean even as people are dying next to him. Ironically, this extreme refinery goes almost to the point of savagery, as the man evidently has no sense of empathy. Most of the Europeans in the book descend to savagery, whether this comes in the form of Kurtz' genocide or the pilgrims' eagerness to shoot at the natives. Even Marlow feels the effect of his surroundings: "Being hungry, you know, and kept on my feet too, I was getting savage" (19). Meanwhile, while the natives do show many uncivilized tendencies, they have certain civilities as well. For example, the cannibals aboard Marlow's ship don't eat the pilgrims, even though they have the power to if they so choose. This is a type of restraint many of the characters, including Kurtz, lack entirely. It also baffles Marlow, who has automatically decided that the native Africans are "savages" and have no refined characteristics. Thus, the labels of "civilized" and "savage" within the novel are meaningless: every character in the book exhibits both characteristics.
In this matter, the thesis of Heart of Darkness is similar to that of Lord of the Flies: civilization is a facade that simply masks the human default state of savage behavior; once the cover of society is removed, humanity's brutish nature becomes quickly apparent. Civilization is a function of society; it both defines refinement and enables us to act in a "civilized" manner. It's clear from historical imperialism that what we define as civilized lies not within our actions (the killings in Heart of Darkness in the name of paternalism are hardly civil) but with what aligns with normalcy in our particular society. As Achebe points out, Africa did have a substantial cultural base during the time period of the novel, and some of their art even inspired European artists. However, Europeans characterized Africans as savages simply because this culture was foreign. Why, then, do we choose to use the tags of civilization and savagery? Perhaps it's due to a desire to constantly put ourselves at the top of the universal pecking order. Maybe it's because we try to limit the world to what we know and exclude everything else with broad, derogatory labels. Regardless of the cause, though, Conrad debunks the imperialist concept of the "civilized world" and the "savage natives."
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Post by amysohlberg on Apr 6, 2014 5:54:05 GMT
The relationship between civilization and savagery is explored throughout the novel, but I think the most profound commentary on the two is found in the character of Kurtz. Kurtz is a perfect representation of "civilization." He comes from a wealthy, technologically advanced country, where he was well educated and was betrothed to be married to a beautiful young woman from a respectable family. He is taken out of his natural environment, however, and is plunged into the heart of "savagery." The wild, untamed forest that surrounds Kurtz's camp seems to melt away all of his moral and intellectual education and draws out his primal nature. When Marlow is tending to the sick Kurtz, Conrad writes, “I tried to break the spell, the heavy mute spell of the wilderness that seemed to draw him to its pitiless breast by the awakening of forgotten and brutal instincts, by the memory of gratified and monstrous passions. This alone, I was convinced, had driven him out to the edge of the forest, to the bush, towards the gleam of fires, the throb of drums, the drone of weird incantation; this alone had beguiled his unlawful soul beyond the bounds of permitted aspirations… But his soul was mad. Being alone in the wilderness, it had looked within itself and, by Heavens I tell you, it had gone mad” (65-66).
Kurtz's horrible spiral toward death removes any existing idea of the "noble savage" or that man is in any way better when he lives by his primal urges. The savagery that Marlow sees in Kurtz is dark and evil, full of violence and greed. Marlow uses the same savagery to describe the natives in their strange rituals to worship Kurtz. Through Kurtz, Marlow shows that savagery exists in every man, and although civilization acts as a thin veil to mask the ugliness of true human nature, it is ripped away before the reality of death.
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Post by naomiporter on Apr 7, 2014 6:23:01 GMT
I agree with Amy that Kurtz is the best example of the themes of civilization and savagery because of the huge contrast between his previous life and his life and death in Africa. While his savagery and insanity do not become clear until he goes to Africa and is surrounded by that "savage" environment, the book clearly suggests that everyone is capable of savagery under the right circumstances.
For Kurtz, the right circumstances were in the uncivilized African wilderness, but of course savagery is not limited to Africa. As Kurtz' failure becomes clear in Africa, Marlow's is seen in the civilized world when he lies to The Intended about the horror of Kurtz's life and their experiences on the Congo. He allows her to think that Kurtz was a great, beloved, and loving man when he tells her, "The last word he pronounced was—your name" (69). As one of few people who have the opportunity, it seems to be his duty to tell the truth about the savagery and darkness of the whole trip, how it "changed" people, specifically Kurtz, and about Kurtz' death. By lying about it and pretending that they were doing good and Kurtz was a good, civilized, loving man to the end, Marlow fails and allows the savagery to continue. He admits what he should have done when he says he wonders what would have happened if he "had rendered Kurtz that justice which was his due? Hadn't he said he wanted only justice? But I couldn't. I could not tell her. It would have been too dark—too dark altogether...." (69) Because he decides it is "too dark" to tell, he settles for the facade of civilization and pretends the darkness does not exist.
It seems that the difference between the civilized and savage worlds is that in the civilized world, darkness is hidden and ignored. When in Europe, Marlow refuses to admit the horror of Kurtz' life, and he is believed. No one who is "civilized" doubts the goodness of Kurtz and the whole trip to Africa because the darkness that they are subject to is blindness to the savagery around them.
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