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Post by Lacey Doby on Nov 20, 2013 1:15:30 GMT
Kind of relating to the idea of death being a tragedy, in my mind, tragedy is the loss of something that a person truly cared about but will never get back. Basically the exact same idea as Kasey, but I think I agree with her statement. When something is lost--childhood, opportunity, the ability to speak, life, etc--and gone for good, it seems to burden the mind a bit more than a mundanely bad thing does. Say, for example, I got a bad grade on a test. I would be super bummed out when it happened, but that feeling would fade with time as more important things filled my life. A tragedy, like the loss of a limb or something else I cared strongly about, would stay in my mind for years to come. Maybe it would be less painful over time, but it would always be there. I think that unforgettable missing thing is what makes a tragedy.
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Post by madisonarmst on Nov 20, 2013 1:19:53 GMT
In order for something sad to be seen as a tragedy, it must be unexpected and affect the masses. Natural disasters, bombings or shootings, for example, are tragedies. There is almost no way of preventing or foreseeing them and they affect large numbers of people. These events affect us deeply because we realize that they could happen anywhere at any time, even to us personally. The distinction between an average sad event and a tragic one is, in some cases, blurry. A shooting that wounds several people in a community is tragic for that community, but for the outside world it does not quite qualify as a tragedy. Members of that community are likely scarred by the event, but it hardly affects those outside of the area. Thus, it cannot be considered a tragedy because it only affects a small number of people. I do not mean to undermine the affect that unfortunate events have on towns, but to consider these types of occurrences tragedies would undermine true world tragedies. The recent typhoon in the Philippines, where thousands died and thousands more are still left without resources, is a tragedy. The state senator's son's suicide and stabbing of his father, although incredibly sad, is not a tragedy. To call his death a tragedy would be to equate the death of one with the death of thousands. Both are sad, but the sudden death of thousands is on a whole different level of sadness than the death of one man.
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Post by stever on Nov 20, 2013 1:49:50 GMT
I agree that tragic events are often unforeseen, and the events leading up to the tragedy only truly become clear in hindsight. Something similar to this idea that has not been brought up, which I believe is integral to the idea of tragedy, is that tragedies are not inevitable and could have been easily avoided. Untimely death is usually very tragic, but as Haley brought up, the peaceful death of someone due to old age (while sad) is not a tragedy. The deaths of the main characters in "Romeo and Juliet," one of Shakespeare's most famous tragedies, could have been avoided if the Capulets and the Montagues settled their petty feud, or if there was better communication leading up to the main characters' tragic deaths. The events that lead up to similar real-life tragedies are much clearer in hindsight, and often the tragedy in events lies in desire to have made different decisions to have avoided the tragedy altogether. Tragic stories often have me thinking, "If only so-and-so did such-and-such...", because most literary representations of tragedies involve a clear tragic flaw in the protagonist that causes the tragedy, and this tragic flaw could have been easily changed. In addition to several of the qualifications mentioned above, I believe that tragedies involves an "if only..." quality to be elevated above other, more inevitable sad events.
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Post by austinellerbruch on Nov 20, 2013 1:50:19 GMT
I do not believe that a tragedy has to necessarily effect the masses, but I do think that a tragedy must result in a change in the party involved. When you fall or break your leg, that is not considered a tragedy because the damage is only temporary. But certain events, like the car crash on Friday, can leave a long lasting or permanent change on those involved. What occurred with those girls can be considered tragic, as the incident will probably leave them physically, if not, psychologically scarred. In Romeo and Juliet, the death of the star-crossed lovers, despite being a horrific tragedy, influences a new relationship between the once rivaled families of the Montagues and the Capulets. A natural disaster is a tragedy that leaves several dead and a horrific memory to the population affected. Tragedies are so effective to us because they change the way live or perceive reality.
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Post by mattagritelley on Nov 20, 2013 2:29:14 GMT
The ability to distinguish between the mundanely bad and the tragic stems from the perceptual and emotional qualities within the human brain. Everyday occurrences simply do not provide a level of shock or evoke enough of a unique emotional response to be considered tragedies. For example, if I were to hear about or witness a car being stolen or a store being robbed, I would briefly feel sorry for the victim, but I would soon forget about it because of its prevalence. A tragedy, on the other hand, is something that is so rare or outlandish that it invokes a new and different negative emotional response. The Sandy Hook Shooting, for instance, is a horrific tragedy. This can be seen through its unique emotional impact on people. Emotions can be extremely powerful, and although I consider all mass shootings to be tragedies, the thought of having this happen to young children is even more devastating and powerful.
Secondly, tragedies are often incomprehensible. Although this idea is very much intertwined with the seldom nature of tragedies, it also posits that common events can be made horrifically tragic. We all realize that car accidents happen everyday, and although they are disconcerting to hear about, they usually remain contained within the confines of our television screens. We may call these accidents mundane, yet, it is not until something so incomprehensible happens that we are truly able to recognize tragedy. I believe that what happened to our own schoolmates this past weekend was a tragedy, not only because of the horrible nature of the accident, but also because it affected loved members of our Laker family. This is something that is almost impossible to fathom-- I never imagined this would happen so close to home.
A tragedy is shaped through two main mediums-- rarity and incomprehensibility-- which either function cohesively or independently in elevating an event to this emotional low.
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Post by sammywong on Nov 20, 2013 2:58:46 GMT
I do not think even as a collective group of intelligent thinkers we can narrow down what exactly is and is not a tragedy. This subject reminds me a lot of our cliche thread a few weeks back. But I do think that tragedies must involve human beings, and involve human beings in a "very bad" way. If I saw a bank being robbed, I would not consider the situation a tragedy. If, in the process of robbing the bank, the robber shoots a man in line, I would consider that a tragedy. How bad "very bad" must be in order to be considered a tragedy is independent opinion. "Very bad" can mean death, heart break, broken bones, or even confusion like what the narrator experiences in The Wild Sheep Chase.
I do think, however, that tragedy really does need to involve the distress of a human being or beings. The reader is correct until "The Embryo Zone." (in class reference if B day students were questioning my sanity) To say that your dog being run over by a car is a tragedy makes me want to question your awareness of the world around you. I love dogs. I own a dog if that helps with my stance on the matter. But I am a strong believer that personal connection can only go so far to justify tragedy. Tragedies should, no matter how lightly, pull on the heart strings of anyone who is aware of its presence. Strangers ultimately will feel the force of the tragedy less, but they should still have some sort of "that's horrible" response. (even if it is a 2 millisecond, non-vocalized thought)
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alice
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by alice on Nov 20, 2013 3:37:08 GMT
I have trouble with the term "tragedy" because I tend to skirt away from it. I don't think I've ever used it in my life because I fee like it needs to be reserved for the very worst. I think things can easily be tragic like the anguish a family feels after they lose someone close to them, or the situations of those facing everyday oppression. I also agree with Kasey and Lacey with their shared point of tragedy being the loss of something that is almost irreplaceable. If you lose a close friend you can try to fill that void with new friends but you will never full replace the one you lost. That is tragic.
I also feel like the word tragic is something people say when they cannot or do not want to help. Perhaps it doesn't concern them or perhaps they just don't care but oh will you gossip to your friends about that "traaagic accident". There's a quote by Mel Brooks that really gets to this point. It reads, "“Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die". In this situation he is faced with TRAGEDY because he is minorly injured YET it is directly to him. When something happens to someone else, however, (I'm going really out on a slapstick limb here) it doesn't seem as bad. This ties back to other posts above about how tragedy has to affect a large mass of people when really I believe, like Emily, that the branding of "tragedy" is given by its victim...or non victim depending how you view it.
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Post by fionabyrne on Nov 20, 2013 3:53:32 GMT
It seems to me that you can't come back from tragedy. The very sad has at least the potential to get better, but tragedy is where it is impossible to say "well at least..." There are no bright sides. What sets tragedy apart is that nothing good comes of it, or at least nothing enough good to be worth the trying effort of optimism. Because there is no turn around, no way to make the thing better, death often qualifies because it is also final. But if an elderly relative gets cancer and then lives twenty years beyond his or her life expectancy before passing peacefully surrounded by loved ones, that death is not necessarily a tragedy. Finality is not the only requisite for tragedy, there must also be a factor of senselessness.
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Post by jamiezimmerman on Nov 20, 2013 3:56:30 GMT
I see tragedy in a literary sense as the Achilles' heel - the be-all, end-all. In a piece of literature, a character/protagonist is often glorified in personality - they are virtuous, noble, and brave. They are a hero. But often times they have a fatal flaw, and once this target is struck, the destruction of their life will often unfold. The fatal flaw is what makes something sad, maybe he was persecuted unjustly or he had an accident, but what truly elevates literature into Tragedy is a fatal flaw that resonates with most humans. Hubris, ignorance, or obsession are all characteristics that we as humans have. We all experience triumph like puffed up popinjays or infatuation of our first serious love interest. And because we see characteristics that we aren't proud of exist in heroes we enjoy reading or watching about, we are frightened. We are frightened because we see how easy it could be for any of us to descend into oblivion, just like Achilles. In "real life", however, I think tragedy has fewer hints of irony, scrutiny, and travesty. Literature itself seems to be cynical of its own characters. Tragedy in real life is in genuine despair. The questions that arise from the tragedy and the cause of the tragedy then raise questions about our own humanity. The best example that comes to my mind is World War One. Before the war, the American government grew very involved in the economic affairs of the country. After the war, both soldiers and civilian alike were devastated. They raised the argument: Look what big government did. This is what makes war a tragedy. In addition to the completely avoidable deaths of thousands of people, we question our very own humanity and the assurance we have of ourselves before we sail into the future.
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Post by garygates on Nov 20, 2013 4:00:59 GMT
When I think of tragedy in literature, the first thing that comes to my mind is death. Due to my limited understanding and exploration of the tragedy genre I cannot conclude whether death is a necessary puzzle piece of a work that abides by the universal term 'tragedy.' Since I cannot judge all works, or even what some might call 'numerous' works, due to my tragic ignorance (ha, get it?) to define tragedy, I will use the works that fit the following criteria: 1, I must have read the work. And 2, I must have heard, whether two minutes ago via internet search or years ago by other methods such as education that this work is referred to as a 'tragedy.' Yes, as you can see by my criteria list, I am most definitely in over my head when it comes to this activity. The two works that I can vividly recall and that most resonate 'tragedy' with me or with another source are "Romeo and Juliet" and "The Great Gatsby." So, although I am still not certain whether death is a necessary component of tragedy, according to my interpretations of these works and the events that pass in these two novels my personal conception of tragedy aligns with death being a factor of the genre. The first work, "Romeo and Juliet," is undeniably tragic. This does not go to say that it is only tragic, as it is also comedic and most likely contains multitudes of other genre characteristics, but it is in my opinion that it can be referred to as a tragedy. The item that sets makes this novel 'tragic' is not just Romeo and Juliet's deaths. Deaths are common occurrences in literature, even in "A Wild Sheep Chase" and "The Metamorphosis," and I would not categorize either of these novels as tragedies. My formula for a tragic death is that the death must occur to a central character and the character must remain unredeemed or futile in his or her efforts to better his or her self and/or environment. Romeo and Juliet are both central characters to their namesake novel and their deaths are the sort of important 'dying for a cause' ends that I think necessary in tragedies. As an audience, tragedies must make us feel that the life of the deceased main character was left unresolved. Sure, Romeo and Juliet brought peace to their families, but how much more could they have done alive? We will never know, and this is the importance that tragic deaths carry. Gatsby's death occurs in a similar fashion. When he has finally admitted his love to the woman of his dreams she leaves him. Maybe out of fear, maybe out of lack of love, this we will never know. Gatsby's death interrupts this search for a resolving answer and a feeling of futility pervades the story. My idea of tragedy is only just budding at this time and most definitely will alter its shape as I progress my own thoughts according to my reaction to the opinions of others. As I stand, my idea of tragedy is that of the end of an unresolved life, but like all things in this world, my idea is transitory.
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Post by avinash on Nov 20, 2013 4:05:12 GMT
Tragedy is a term that is unique to every individual. I remember when my family was moving around ten years ago, a poster I had made for science class had been lost. This was one of the works I had been most proud of and was of great sentimental value to me. Another person in my shoes may not have valued this item as much as I did and therefore the loss of the poster wouldn’t have had as great of a negative impact. In my opinion a tragedy occurs when you have lost something you cannot get back. An example that most would consider tragic is the loss of a close family member. Going back to my anecdote above, I think that fits into the category of a tragedy. At that age, I was distraught when I realized I could never again get my science project back. Reflecting on that experience now, it seems silly to place so much importance on a simple poster. Again, this goes to show that tragedy is in the eyes of the beholder. Tragedy doesn’t have to only be related to what is tangible. It can concern things such as the feeling of safety. If your house is broken into, you are never going to have the same peace of mind as you did before your house was infiltrated. In this sense, your mental psyche has lost something forever. You may be reading this and thinking: "Oh, that's not a tragedy..." But, again, tragedy is a delicate idea that is heavily dependent upon the values and background of who is affected by said tragedy.
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Post by natalieskowlund on Nov 20, 2013 4:31:54 GMT
Oooookkkk...so I can feel myself building up to a ginormous tangent right about now, so here goes. I think the trivial, mundane sadness of everyday living is connected to major tragedies in the origin of the pain, the difference being merely a rating on a spectrum (but a spectrum of what? well, I'm getting there, just wait a sec!). Basically, I believe all forms of pain (physical, emotional, psychological, etc.) spring from the fear of loss of self, fear of loss of truth, and ultimately, a fear of change. As humans, we need stability and control--or at least a sense of it--to keep on living from day to day. If we were constantly doubting ourselves and not creating in our minds some patterns through which we could try to make sense of the world's chaos, how could we cope? We live by rules, not exceptions, and so when those exceptions occur, it can be a devastating awakening from our delusion of stability. Hence, I believe sadness & tragedy exist on a continuum of the severity of change that occurs. For example, getting a bad grade on an exam often makes us slightly sad because it might threaten a change in our perception of our own worthiness and intelligence. A friend who commits suicide, on the other hand, would be considered a tragedy because death is not a threat of deviation from accepted reality but a full blown demonstration of it. A being that had once existed as part of our "pattern" is suddenly nonexistent, creating an extremely unsettling hole in our life tapestry. Our lives, our world, our Selves are completely reliant on the working of our minds & consciousness. As Renee Descartes proposed, "[We] think, therefore [we are]." When that consciousness dwindles or disappears, it reminds us of our own mortality--not just physical mortality, but mortality of our Self, our personality, our beliefs, our truths...we realize how frighteningly unstable we are, in consciousness just as much as in physicality.
In an interesting New York Times article by Roy Scranton entitled "Learning How to Die in the Anthropocene," (link here:http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/learning-how-to-die-in-the-anthropocene/?emc=eta1&_r=0)Scranton states, "The human psyche naturally rebels against the idea of its end. Likewise, civilizations have throughout history marched blindly toward disaster, because humans are wired to believe that tomorrow will be much like today — it is unnatural for us to think that this way of life, this present moment, this order of things is not stable and permanent." Scranton makes a great point: as humans, it is natural to deny that we will eventually cease to exist. And I think it is this universal denial of all of our inevitable ends that make us so susceptible to pain and sorrow. Just as we can never fully accept our own physical deaths, we also cannot accept the "deaths" of parts of ourselves and others that we had believed would always exist or be true. I know one of my biggest fears is becoming a person in the future who the me of now would detest; the notion that I may not continue to have the same--or at least similar--values to those I have currently is painful to me. Tragedy, the ultimate loss of stability, brings us to our knees has us pouring out tears because suddenly one brick of that firm wall we had built up has fallen out, and bits of truth are crumbling to the ground. Maybe we repair the wall, or maybe we just let it deteriorate or perhaps we tear the whole thing down and build a whole new wall. Tragedy challenges us to reconsider everything we know and believe, and the way in which live our lives, because it reminds us of the fragility of everything tangible and intangible.
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Post by coreybrown on Nov 20, 2013 4:41:50 GMT
As has been mentioned before, tragedy can be a highly personal thing. A tragic event in one person's life may seem only sad from someone on the outside. The other kind of tragedy is one that effects a much larger audience. This kind of tragedy is one that, no matter your connection to the event, is shocking and tragic. As this Friday marks the 50th anniversary of his passing, I feel impelled to bring up the assassination of JFK. To most Americans living at the time it's one of those "I'll never forget where I was when I heard the news" sort of moments. While his death was certainly not as tragic on a global scale as other events (the Holocaust for example), it had a profoundly tragic impact on the world. On this global scale, tragedy is something shocking and unexpected. It's inconceivable and cannot be comprehended initially.
On a more personal level, an unexpected death or loss of a loved one is certainly a tragedy. A random person's death, while sad, does not have that same feeling because death happens all the time and that person is just another number. When it happens to someone you know or love, it's tragic because that thing that happens happened to you.
One last detail I'd like to touch on is the aforementioned Romeo & Juliet. This classic is certainly a tragedy, but I'd like to argue that there's more to tragedy than Shakespeare's definition. Sure a tragedy is when people die in the end, but there is also something even more tragic in the way that the two star crossed lovers die. Sure it would be tragic if Romeo and Juliet both committed suicide to escape a society that kept them apart, but isn't it even more tragic that Juliet concocted a plan to get feign death only to wake up to find that Romeo, in his distress at her passing, had killed himself then killed herself?
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Post by kevinle on Nov 20, 2013 4:42:22 GMT
I have never actually actively called thought of an event as tragic. I always think of bad things as terrible, sad, life-changing, etc., but I have never thought of anything as tragic... it doesn't seem to be in my vocabulary.
This said, I remember being taught that a tragedy is an avoidable pain-causing event normally caused by human failure. It is similar to what PJ said, as natural disasters do not fall into this category. For something to be called tragic, it would have to cause sustained life-changing pain(both physical and emotional)and create sympathy among the non-physically effected. For me, a general bad day would not count as tragic, because I know there will be brighter days ahead. If I broke my arm, it would be somewhat miserable but I would not call it tragic because of the lack of emotional distress. To be a tragedy, an event needs to be caused by human failure and result in death or great pain. I would not call a bone fracture from a sporting event tragic, but I would call concussions tragic because they are avoidable and can cause permanent damage.
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Post by jennyxu on Nov 20, 2013 4:43:37 GMT
The most commonly used example of tragedy is, of course, Romeo and Juliet. That text allows for a pretty straightforward explanation of the difference between sad and tragic. Both are "bad", but the difference is in the events that lead up to the bad thing. Sad is the movie about a woman stricken with cancer and, predictably, at the end of the movie, she dies. This is definitely worse than everyday-sad, and can validly play with your emotions, but it is not tragic. The thing that makes Romeo and Juliet tragic is the fact that everything could have been prevented. "If only..." If only Tybalt didn't kill Mercutio. If only Romeo knew that Juliet wasn't actually dead. Usually at the end of a tragedy, the characters that survive feel pretty stupid, like how the Montagues and Capulets regret not making peace sooner, because there's a sudden revelation that doesn't happen with simply sad things. But the revelation comes too late for the characters to do anything about it, which adds to the tragedy.
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