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Post by moreno on Apr 16, 2014 2:19:27 GMT
Hey guys! We can talk about role reversal here, despite which class period you're in.
I'll post later, I just wanted to get it started!
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Post by davidqin on Apr 16, 2014 15:14:15 GMT
Hey guys, I'm currently out of town and will not be there. Thursday, but I will contribute ideas the same. I will begin by considering the role reversal from the perspective of the Smales. No doubt their having to depend on the hospitality of their former subordinate creates a new power structure, one in which they still feel superior (evidenced by the other motifs of gun and truck), but are coming to understand July's increasing autonomy and assertiveness are not isolated events. It's also interesting to note this lack of role reversal among the children, whose social interactions contrast witht those of the adults and are characterized by equality and naivete. Finally, there is a sense of isolation from the outside world (radio motif), which creates more awkwardness since nobody actually knows if the whites or blacks are winning, and therefore which social hierarchy to follow.
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Post by madisonarmst on Apr 16, 2014 19:21:15 GMT
The role reversal in July's people is interesting, particularly among the parents. In the beginning, the Smales family has the upper hand in terms of power because they are in charge of July, who is their servant at the time. When the Smales move in with July, however, the power dynamic is upset. The Smales are lost in their new world and July helps them in some ways, but takes advantage of them in other ways. For example, July takes the Smales's car, uses it for pleasure and virtually destroys it. July is by no means in charge of the Smales, but he certainly takes more control of their lives and his own life. In addition, the Smales are extremely dependent on July because they have no idea how to act and behave in their new environment. They depend heavily on July and he eventually takes advantage of them by taking their car and destroying it. Furthermore, the children seem to be unaffected by the power dynamic. After some initial hesitation, they bond with the other children in their new community and easily made friends. There is no real role-reversal among the children because their roles were not clearly defined in the beginning, and because the children are presumably more accepting/less concerned with power than their respective parents.
If anyone can offer insight into how the language and stylistics plays into this, it would be much appreciated. I'm having trouble finding a specific type of language that contributes to this.
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Post by sheridanf on Apr 16, 2014 23:12:45 GMT
I'd like to bring up a really important passage for the role-reversal theme. On page 128, after talking to the Chief, Maureen and Bam discuss what July might do in response to the meeting. At first, they play with the idea that he might be against them, because "He always did what whites told him...How will he not do what blacks tell him." Their paranoia, however, quickly transforms into logic and note that July himself might be in danger: "Good god! He runs the risk of getting killed himself, for having us here! Although I don't think he realizes, luckily..." The meeting with the chief really highlights for them how fragile they've become, and how much power July has over them. They react immediately with paranoia, that July might use his power against them. When they realize the ridiculousness of this gut-reaction, they next worry about July, like they always used to do, as if they have the power over him. This is especially conveyed in the words, "Although I don't think he realizes it, luckily," which gives off a tone of a parent trying to keep his/her child safe and oblivious.
Overall, they can't seem to process the whole role-reversal thing. They treat July like they're his worried parents, like on page 53 when they question him about where he went the other day, or when they ask July why he doesn't give back their keys. They don't seem to understand that the real reason they worry and ask these questions is that July is their only source of protection, and they interpret their uneasiness as a loving gesture of wanting to ensure July's protection. The illusion that they have the power is finally shattered when the gun is stolen: "Bam was just as he was when the car keys were lost back there. But his hands shook, actually shook- she saw it as she had often pretended not to know when someone was crying" (143). The gun represents the supremacy they're used to due to their race. The gun is never actually used to protect themselves- Bam only uses it to hunt and to teach July and Daniel how to use it for fun. But the physical owning of the gun kept them believing that they were powerful. Bam cries when it's lost because losing it finally shows them how fragile they are, and how reversed their roles have become.
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Post by carolinedorman on Apr 17, 2014 5:36:59 GMT
I think the role reversal is particularly complicated for Maureen. Although July was previously a servant in her home, she avoided a relationship based on a racial hierarchy. i think conflict arises largely from her passivity. On page 98, her passive nature comes full circle as she experiences the role reversal: "She had never been afraid of a man. Now comes fear, on top of everything else...and it comes from this one, from him...How was she to have known, until she came here, that the special consideration she had shown for his dignity as a man, while he was by definition a servant, would become his humiliation itself, the only thing there was to say between them that had any meaning. Fifteen years. Your boy. You satisfy"(98). The role reversal Bam faces is more black and white, and easier to digest. Contrastingly, Maureen resists a role reversal because she refuses to settle into a hierarchal role in the first place. This contributes to the unique bond between Maureen and July.
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Post by emwolfram on Apr 17, 2014 6:20:49 GMT
I think Caroline makes an excellent point about how Maureen is not fully aware of her role until the roles are reversed. This huge shift in their relationship dynamics makes Maureen begin to question the way she used to live. She did not see herself as better than July out of arrogance, she just thought that was the way life was. In a way this slow realization and Maureen's struggle to fully understand the complexity of this change shows that she is ignorant not racist. The passage where July confronts Maureen about the way she treated him is an eye opener for Maureen. She had not understood the wrongness of her old way of life until she was forced into this reversal.
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Post by robertxu on Apr 21, 2014 20:05:32 GMT
"If all whites became the same enemies, to blacks, all whites might become 'Europeans' for the Americans?" (Gordimer 126)
It's interesting how Gordimer reverses the roles of whites and blacks on a macro level. Historically, Eurocentric culture has otherized Africans by ignoring the many diverse cultures of Africa and it's educational to see this double standard reversed. Instead all white people are seen as the "other" and assumed to be European which highlights the dangers of generalizing such a large population of people.
Additionally the quote, "The boy who had been a buck became a predator" once again emphasizes the large scale race role reversal of blacks coming into power by continuing the use of the motif of "Boss Boy".
And lastly, the role reversal is very useful in teaching the Smales empathy. When Royce asks for more food that Maureen basically collected herself, Bam said, "No, she worked very hard to get that"
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Post by anaritter on Jun 3, 2014 1:34:17 GMT
What stood out most to me with the theme of role reversal in July's People was when July provides the Smales with soap, and Maureen instantly jumps to the conclusion (or perhaps innocent wonder) that the soap used to be theirs.
Maureen asks July for soap for her own personal use, to which July replies: "'I bring soap.' Soap he had remembered to take from her store-cupboard? His clean clothes smelled of Lifebuoy she bought for them - the servants. He didn't say; perhaps merely not to boast his foresight. She was going to ask - and quite saw she could not" (Gordimer 27). This is at the beginning of the novel, where Maureen is just beginning to make the transition from being July's absolute superior to quite possibly being his inferior. She isn't used to the role reversal, which is why she questions where the soap comes from at first.
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Post by jamiezimmerman on Jun 4, 2014 5:22:48 GMT
Maureen engages in this twisted sense of claiming power over the situation when she refuses to pay July for the month that they have been away. Clearly, Maureen and Bam are at the mercy of July - their lives have been saved out of the grace of July's heart. He has opened his world to them, allowed them to stay, and at great personal expense provided their security in the modern war-torn world. July asks Maureen one request that ought be expected - that he gets paid for his month's work - but Maureen, realizing how she no longer controls July, denies him that with little dignity or moral backbone to stand on. How much do the Smales owe July? One month's pay or their lives?
But then, they never asked July to save them. In an unspoken agreement, the Smales and July fled the city to his village. So whose "responsibility" is it? Who owes what to whom?
Maureen, coming from her privileged sense of entitlement and control automatically tries to shift the situation in her favor. I don't feel as if July is motivated by the same forces. He has a family to care for and a mistress to treat and needs his income. He is desperate when Maureen denies him that because she is too caught up in this weird power struggle to offer it to him.
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