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Post by mattagritelley on Jul 10, 2013 2:02:54 GMT
In the final chapter, Grendel fights an unnamed man who eventually kills him. Since Grendel is based off of the epic poem Beowulf, it is safe to assume that this unnamed killer is intended to represent Beowulf (and I will refer to him as such). During the course of this final battle, Grendel notices that Beowulf has developed certain unique and familiar characteristics:"He has wings. Is it possible? And yet it's true: out of his shoulders come terrible fiery wings" (Gardner 169). Gardner is obviously comparing Beowulf to the Dragon, but why?
Beowulf says to Grendel, "It's coming, my brother. Believe it or not. Though you murder the world, turn plains to stone, trans-mogrify life into I and it, strong searching roots will crack your cave and rain will cleanse it: The world will burn green, sperm build again. My promise. Time is the mind, the hand that makes (fingers on harpstrings, hero-swords, the acts, the eyes of queens). By that I kill you" (Gardner 170). The premise of his words: everything dies. Earlier on, the dragon tells Grendel of the coming apocalypse, to which Grendel responds in utter disbelief and denial. Yet, now it is Beowulf, who, as a mere mortal, is preaching the dragon's beliefs. That being said, it is possible that Grendel's inability to comprehend this idea could be his ultimate downfall as a character.
The comparison of Beowulf to the dragon leaves several interesting questions: Why is Beowulf shown to have Dragon-like characteristics? Is it merely an illusion or could Beowulf actually be the dragon? Is there some sort of over-arching theme or ideology that resonates between Beowulf and the dragon that makes them similar or comparable?
Here's another way to think about this: how does the Dragon's constant influence on Grendel affect Grendel's final moments, and does Beowulf's representation as a dragon offer a greater message about society?
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alice
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Post by alice on Jul 10, 2013 5:09:07 GMT
I think it is a really important fact to note here is that Grendel always considered the Dragon of a supreme power that was not equalled to anyone else's. He considered himself as an invincible power amongst men so it seems fitting that the only creature he saw fit to bring his own death was the Dragon. Perhaps, Gardner made Beowolf the Dragon in this scene to represent that every person or creature has great power whether it is obvious or not. Or perhaps Grendel was imagining things as he was loosing large amounts of blood.
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Post by kevinle on Jul 14, 2013 22:00:27 GMT
When Grendel confronted the dragon in the cave, he was in constant disbelief while listening to the dragon's philosophical talks. At one point, the dragon mentioned the inevitable apocalypse and death that would come to the world. I think that this is definitely related to Grendel's death. The dragon also somewhat challenged Grendel to "Do something else... Alter the future" (73). These words stuck with Grendel until his death, as shown by his increasingly erratic violence. He wanted to respond to the dragon's challenge to show his power..... but failed and hit that apocalypse
And I also want to point out... at the beginning of chapter 6, Grendel said that "Whatever [he] may have understood or misunderstood in the dragon's talk, something much deeper stayed with me, became my aura. Futility, doom, became a smell in the air... wherever I went" (75). (((((more mysterious foreshadowing)))))
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Post by garygates on Aug 3, 2013 23:31:20 GMT
First and foremost, I do not believe that the premise of Beowulf's poetic goodbye was that everything dies, as you said. I think there is a little more importance hidden in Beowulf's words and its interpretation by Grendel. Until this point, and even partially through this point, readers are supposed to be sympathetic towards Grendel. Although he is in fact a monster, there is reason to forgive him (or so we are supposed to think) because he is going through troubled times in his life. He is the first of his kind, the first real animal that is not a machine, like the ram and other mechanical wildlife that contrasts Grendel in the novel, and he is alone. There is no one to guide Grendel or to love Grendel so we feel his pain and sympathize with him. However, Beowulf's quote finally gives us another side of the story. Though short, I think it really gets its message across. Focusing primarily on the last three lines of the quote, "Though you murder the world, turn plains to stone, trans-mogrify life into I and it, strong searching roots will crack your cave and rain will cleanse it: The world will burn green, sperm build again. My promise. Time is the mind, the hand that makes (fingers on harpstrings, hero-swords, the acts, the eyes of queens). By that I kill you" (Gardner 170). If you look at the imagery, it tells us a story more about rebirth than it tells of death and everything coming to an end. Grendel, in the eyes of humans, has been "turn[ing] plains to stone" and making life desperately dark and difficult for the humans. Beowulf then talks of nature, having roots crack Grendel's cave and rain cleansing this gave full of sin and pain. This is not a dark and foreboding riddance but and happy rebirth. Imagery of this rebirth is continued as Beowulf tells us that, "The world will burn green, sperm build again" meaning not that the world will set fire and end but that the plains will be beautiful and green again. The final line does, at first glance, seem like quite a fatalistic goodbye to Grendel, as you mentioned, but if you look closer you will see that 'time' is not a killer, but "the hand that makes," meaning that time rebuilds and will allow this community that Grendel has ravaged to flourish green with brilliance and beauty once again. Even though we see out of Grendel's eyes and initially want to hate Beowulf, if we approach this conflict without bias we will see that Beowulf has reason. Gardener has pitted two people against each other, and now that we understand both sides' pain and wants, there is no real hero for us as an audience. We do not want Grendel to die, we want him to be understood, but we also want rebirth.
To move on to the dragon imagery, I think now that we understand Beowulf we see the irony in him appearing like a dragon. Beowulf better embodies, to us as an audience, the words of the shaper. He fights to replenish beauty in the world, and partakes in heroic actions that he believes important but that the fatalist Dragon would tell us change nothing. The only reason that he appears to be the dragon to Grendel is because Grendel is not listening to Beowulf's words. Grendel is trying to understand what is happening to him and because there is no beauty in this moment to Grendel, his only explanation is that Beowulf must be the dragon, telling him that his time is up.
Furthermore, there is no proof that Grendel's meeting with the Dragon actually existed, but instead it could have been a mental creation, part of Grendel's imagination that he uses to explain the dark and scary parts of his life that he until this time really had no explanation for. Before meeting the dragon Grendel describes, "I made my mind a blank and fell, sank away like a stone trough earth and sea, toward the dragon" (56). This seems much more like an illusion or a mental journey than an actual visit. Grendel would also have fair reason to imagine a visit with the dragon. Grendel has experienced pain and things that he cannot quite understand, and since the mysteries are eating him up and he might never truly figure out 'why' these things happen to him, fate is his scapegoat. Fate is an easy explanation and escape route for Grendel, an easy way to quell his painful curiosity, because fate cannot be proven or disproven.
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Post by pjharris on Aug 6, 2013 0:18:49 GMT
In response to Gary's last paragraph: Fate and accident are antonyms, correct? And if one believes in fate, or is using it as a scape goat, such as Grendel does, then there are no accidents. Everything was meant to be. Then why does Grendel keep insisting that his death was an accident? "Nevertheless, it was by accident that he got my arm behind me" (172). Or the very last line, "'Poor Grendel's had an accident,'" (174). Is this him coming to his senses and rejecting his scapegoat of fate? Or is he denying that Beowulf is the dragon, a supreme being capable of doing anything, "He penetrated no mysteries. He was lucky" (172)? He even said that himself a page before, "My sanity has won. He's only a man; I can escape him" (169).
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Post by garygates on Aug 6, 2013 3:23:48 GMT
I think that these last lines have less to do with Grendel's internal struggle between fate and and free will than they have to do with Grendel's pride. Grendel knows that he is telling an audience a story and thus he is not consistent with his opinions throughout the book, nor does he ever truly open up to the readers. When Beowulf attacks Grendel and Grendel realizes defeat is eminent, Grendel tells himself and readers that he could have won. That the battle was just a game of chance and that generally he would have come out victorious. However, at the same time I think that Grendel realizes that this moment is his reckoning. Fate tells him that it is his time to go so free will and 'accidents' are a coping mechanism that he uses to tell himself that things could have been different. It keeps his pride intact, which is something that Grendel struggles with throughout the novel. Grendel bounces back and forth between fate and free will because either can make him feel more comfortable at one time or another. Since he is scared and does not know where to turn, Grendel constantly turns, then turns back.
I guess in a way this last scene shows Grendel as the contradiction that he is. He is an animal, yet in a way human. He believes in free will and heroism at times, yet at others fate makes these things appear impossible to Grendel. The best real-world example I can give you that, in my opinion, really exemplifies Grendel is the human who sits on the line between science and religion. I wrote this on one of Joel's threads:
"Grendel's image of himself as a hero is caught in the internal and infinite battle between free will and fatalism. Part of Grendel, the Shaper inside of him, wants to believe that his actions have repercussions and effects and will not be for nothing. This motivates him to, at times, kill mass amounts of people in case their is ever a chance of him becoming some sort of imperishable legend, but at other times, the Dragon causes Grendel to see that his actions are pointless and will have no effect, thus why even act? It is sort of similar to those stuck on the boundary between religion and science. The two beliefs often contradict each other but since religion is immeasurable at time people will pray as if there is a heaven, they wish to go there. At other instances in life, however, these indecisive people just say, 'what's the point if an afterlife really doesn't exist' and thus give up and turn into laziness and carelessness. This is where Grendel is trapped his entire life. On the boundary, taking a step occasionally into the philosophies of one side, just to be drawn back to his lonely perch, uncertain of what to do with his life."
(Yes, I feel terribly arrogant and know that I look (and feel) like an asshole quoting myself but I am far too lazy to rewrite this, or even paraphrase, so here is what I wrote earlier.)
I understand if you don't agree with me, hell, I don't even agree with myself sometimes. If I look back at my posts in the forums I have probably contradicted myself more times than Grendel and will probably have a new opinion of Grendel by the time the school year starts, but as of now this is my best way to explain Grendel and the thing that makes most since to me.
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