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Post by kevinle on Jul 15, 2013 19:30:46 GMT
Many of us hope to do something significant in the future... something that will change the world or something that will make the world a better place to live. We hope to be part of a cause--a cause that will change the future. We constantly make decisions that we think will change our futures. Does the future actually change with changes in decision? Or is the future concrete, already containing those changes?
In the cave scene between Grendel and the dragon, the dragon explains its ability to see the future. It sees future life, future death, an everything in between. It even sees his own death and most importantly, Grendel's death. However, he challenges Grendel to "alter the future" in chapter 5. Is this possible? Does the dragon's image of the future change constantly whenever a living being makes a decision? Or is the image concrete, already containing all of the changes?
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Post by racheladele on Jul 26, 2013 21:35:13 GMT
They way that the dragon describes time is on a fixed timeline. Everything that will happen is already laid out, according to the dragon's statement: "...Even if, say, I interfere- burn up somebody's meadhall, for instance, whether cause I just feel like it or because some supplicant asked me to- even then I do not change the future, I merely do what I saw from the beginning" (63). If the dragon can see all of time, I assume that he is very old and experienced. If anyone had that sort of power, he/she would likely abuse it, or attempt to alter the course of their life. Most likely the dragon attempted this, realized the futility of his actions, and now merely sits on his gold and teaches others the immense fortitude of time itself. According to the dragon, changing the timeline of the world is not possible. If perhaps the dragon had informed Grendel of how he was going to die, it wouldn't have made a difference because like everything else the dragon sees, "it has happened...in the future. I am the witness" (71). I think one of the unspoken themes of this book is that time is the greatest power, beyond the control of any creature or force. Later in the book, as Grendel watches a hunter shoot an arrow at a hart, he says, "time is inside them...like sand in an hourglass; it can no more get outside than sand in the lower chamber can rise to the upper without a hand to turn stiff nature on its head...suddenly time is a rush for the hart" (126-127). For Grendel, life was about mocking, free will, and fun. Rarely did he endure pain or an unexpected turn. Claiming his victory until the end, he stood above a void as uncertain as the vastness of time and allowed the weakness at his core to overcome him. His whole life, Grendel was just about the strongest force out there. But as he begins to notice, and as the dragon points out, time trumps all.
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Post by adamgrace on Jul 27, 2013 0:34:39 GMT
When I got to this chapter I realized that Gardner was beginning to touch on a much more complex topic than what I previously assumed the book was about. The dragon suggests that the flow of time is akin to a river; i.e it always leads to the same conclusion. A theory that I've personally invested in is that time is more like an ocean, and every action has a reaction. Each reaction differs immensely according to which action you take. And for each action that is presented to you there is a different possible "dimension" that can be spawned. E.g, if you wear a red shirt today you create a dimension where you're wearing a red shirt for that day. However, if you wear a blue shirt you create an alternate "blue-shirt" dimension. Now of course decisions are being made constantly throughout the universe so this theory tends to get complicated as all hell when you realize there are an infinite amount of these so-called dimensions. Many people tend to stray away from this theory and stick with the stream-lined one as it is much simpler and romanticized.
ANYWAYS, back on topic, I see the dragon as an incredibly cynical creature. Yet, cynicism often comes bundled with vast intelligence. The dragon sees his own death in his future and realizes that the end is imminent so there's no point in attempting to change it. Grendel, who obviously is meant to portray humanity, ignores the dragon's incessant pessimism and continues to believe that there is a point to his existence. Grendel embodies the human spirit of the blissful ignoramus, which we can all (honestly) relate to.
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Post by chrisb on Sept 4, 2013 4:51:05 GMT
Kevin, you pose some very perplexing questions.
I'll answer your questions with a personal anecdote. Very rarely do I have Oreos at my house - but when I do, I intend to enjoy full satisfaction from my consumption of these delicious cookies. On one occasion, I ate several Oreos in a short period of time - and believe it or not, a stomach ache ensued. Perhaps, the Dragon would argue that this temporary ailment was set in the stone of fate, but I would argue that my commitment to the cause of consuming Oreos specifically caused an altered future.
Thank you.
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Post by Hilarious on Sept 4, 2013 7:33:39 GMT
^ this guy!
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Post by Literate Human on Sept 4, 2013 7:34:38 GMT
Oreos. Very deep. Just as deep as the question posed.
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