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Post by natalieskowlund on Jul 25, 2013 5:18:58 GMT
Towards the end of the novel, Gardner writes:
I take this to mean that a group's spirituality and religious beliefs do not spring from tangible events but from the idle times in which people can ponder the meaning behind the events. Moreover, those beliefs become cemented when things begin to go wrong. In my opinion, this is a cynical view of religion which emphasizes it simply as a crutch for hard times but not as a utility in every day instances.
Do you agree with Gardner's view of spirituality and religion? Is religion more of a fear-based entity, with little actual follow-through from individuals? Or, on the other hand, is religion truly a "guiding light" for human beings through times both good and bad, and which manifests itself in individuals' every day actions? Please feel free to cite news stories, personal experiences, etc. to back up your opinion, it will add an interesting flare!
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Post by racheladele on Jul 27, 2013 1:36:23 GMT
I definitely noticed references to religion throughout the book in unexpected places. Besides the circle of gods that Hrothgar's people pray to, Grendel mentions it in his narration a couple times. For example, "They will not snatch me in a thousand years, unless, in a lunatic fit of religion, I jump" (10) (the irony of this quote being that as Grendel is dying he talks about jumping off a cliff). And: "The trees are dead, and only the deepest religion can break through time and believe they'll revive" (125). Grendel uses a lot of insincerity throughout his narration, through cynicism, humor and sarcasm, so it's hard to tell if he's being serious. I personally do not agree with the quote about theology. I think that religion is meant to bring people together to support each other, and that important experiences bring people together best. When someone in a religious community is sick or there is a death, everyone comes together to pray for him/her. The part of the theology quote I can see being true is that religion does not grow on change. I personally wish that it could, but people become so attached to tradition and formality that they forget to move with the times. (Marriage equality, for example.) Fortunately, religions such as Judaism have many different branches, and the one I belong to is very evolved, liberal and accepting. For me personally, it is not a guiding light or a fear-based entity, but I have a huge level of admiration for people who believe so strongly in religion that they cannot live without it.
A little anecdote: Thousands of years ago, according to the Bible/Torah, when God was giving the Ten Commandments to the people of Israel, it is said that His voice boomed like thunder as He recited the commandments, possibly to frighten the Israelites into submission. I think over time religion has shifted from fear-based to community-based. There are many people who claim to be part of a religion but the only things they participate in are the events more about community than prayer or God. In terms of when religion flourishes, I think that that is one of the most complicated an individual questions that can possibly be asked. The answer would be different from almost every person. For one of my independent books, I chose The Color Purple, which contains many references to God and his guidance. I think that many people, such as characters in The Color Purple and townspeople of Grendel, view religion as that guiding light, and gods as entities in place for requests, appreciation and forgiveness.
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Post by amysohlberg on Aug 8, 2013 19:27:01 GMT
I definitely agree that most of the time Gardner portrays religion in a very skeptical and dismissive light, but I also thought Grendel's conversation with Ork, the high priest was really interesting. When Grendel commands him to describe the King of the Gods, the priest begins to speak and is actually so moved by his realization of the King's identity that he begins weeping and shaking. Grendel's only response is to "...raise [his] fingers to [his] mouth, baffled" (132). In this situation I feel like Gardner actually lends a little more credit to the meaning behind man's search for God. Grendel's surprise and wonder at the priest's deep emotional investment in his religion quenches his bloodlust and he leaves the man unharmed. Though it's kind of a subtle moment, in this scene I feel like Grendel is really humbled by the man's faith. Though I doubt that Gardner has a very strong faith in any religion, in the novel he continually points back to the sinful and selfish nature of mankind, and their inability to live in peace and harmony with one another. Grendel's conversation with Ork shows that for the vast majority of townspeople (and priests), the town religion is more of a lip service paid to the gods in the hope that they will give the town prosperity and victory in battle, but for at least one man, there is a genuine desire for truth and true worship. I think Gardner's view of group religion is definitely doubtful, but I also think he has respect for those who sincerely pursue truth in their search for God.
My view is a little different. I am a bible-believing Christian, but I don't have faith in a religion; I have faith in Jesus Christ. I love your question, Natalie, but I don't believe that true religion is a fear-based entity or a "guiding light" for human beings. I believe that true faith is found in worshiping a God that calls us to lay down our lives for the advancement of his kingdom, not a god that is focused on guiding human beings to goodness or righteousness or prosperity or peace (a "guiding light"). A lot of world religions today (many sects of Christianity included) are mostly focused on how god can make our lives better or bring us peace or happiness or a good conscience, but I would argue that if that is the main objective of our religion, the only god we are really serving is ourselves. Romans 12:1-2 in the Bible says, "Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God-- this is your true and proper worship". This verse isn't talking about a physical sacrifice, but a spiritual one. It pretty much sums up my belief that true religion is found in surrendering one's life to God's will for this earth, where peace and joy are a byproduct, not the end goal. True religion shouldn't be about us; it should be about God and who He is. If my God didn't demand to be put before me, I don't think that He would really be worthy of my worship.
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Post by gracepark on Sept 2, 2013 3:44:57 GMT
Aside from all connections to “Grendel”, in all honesty, I don’t think I can say religion is either this or that. I don’t think it can be defined as one extreme or the other because religion comes to people in so many different ways. People get involved with religion for so many different reasons and people do so many different things after they’ve committed themselves to a certain religion. Therefore, each person has his or her own definition of what it is. So it’s hard to categorize religion into a set classification that applies to everyone. But I think your two ideas bring up an interesting point.
Religion, for some, can embody that fear-based entity. Fear can be referred to two things in this situation: the fear of where we’re going to end up after we die and the fear of not having an outer being that overlooks the universe and the people in it. And some people can become tied to a religion because of this fear thus making it a valid definition. Likewise, for some, religion can be the “guiding light” that manifests itself in the individual’s everyday life. This “living” spirituality could potentially be what religion is for some people.
Yet like I said before, because religion is so widespread, its meaning cannot be defined as either one or the other and be applicable to every person. John Gardner has his own idea about religion being a fear-based unit with little follow-through from individuals and other people have their own. And I think that’s the special thing about books: it embodies what an author believes, presents it to an audience, and stimulates different ideas from different people.
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