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Post by Anna M. on Jul 25, 2013 22:49:14 GMT
This is a pretty simple question but I am curious to know what your opinions are on Grendel (the character). I personally haven't decided myself whether or not I like him because I don't neccessarily think the pity I feel for him means that I like him. I think I might dislike him a little because to me he seems to represent everything bad about mankind that society, hypocritically, tries to cast out. For example, Grendel is violent and jealous (that's how I interpret him constantly creeping on the mead halls) and he is completely rejected as a possible member of the community. Anyways, I would love to hear your thoughts about him!
Why do you like or dislike Grendel. Or, why haven't you decided whether you like him or not?
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Post by natalieskowlund on Jul 26, 2013 3:29:21 GMT
As simple as this question might seem, I actually think it's very valid and complex!
When I began reading the novel, I had the assumption that I would either love or hate Grendel by the end, but after finishing I realize that my impression of Grendel only became increasingly muddled over the course of the book. I must say that the young Grendel (towards the beginning of the novel) is very likeable and easy to connect with. He approaches each object and occurrence with optimism and good intentions; when he spies on the people at the mead hall, he expresses a desire to partake in their festivities. Yet, it is only when he becomes visible to the people and realizes that they will not accept him that his openness is first dented. This reminded me strongly of a child's loss of innocence. Children often seem to enter the world with wonder and optimism, no hesitancy, knowledge or fear of the darker parts of life. Yet, at some point, each child's belief in an utterly perfect world becomes sullied, just as Grendel's was. So from my first introduction to young Grendel up until after his meeting with the dragon, I felt true compassion for him--I could completely relate to his longing for meaning in life and his incredulous questioning of the dragon because he didn't want to accept the dragon's version of the truth about life: that no meaning exists. Grendel's experiences up to that point reminded me of my own childhood encounters with things that did not fit my prior understanding of the world. Hence, it was only after Grendel began to ruthlessly kill other animals and humans that a feeling of disgust began to overtake me. In my opinion, Grendel allowed the dragon's dark views to envelop him with little resistance (excepting the "but why? why?"s he directed at the dragon during that fatal meeting). I suppose that is where I began to feel my connection to Grendel begin to wane. What Grendel faced, this intimidating and seemingly all-knowing dragon's insistence that no living being has any control in the scheme of things and that--therefore--no reason exists to resist harming others or be altruistic, is actually one of my greatest fears. I am very afraid of becoming convinced that I should view the world solely through the lens of personal greed and meaninglessness, which I believe was Grendel's fate. I find it absolutely devastating that the dragon managed to harden Grendel so thoroughly that Grendel seemed to no longer feel compassion or love for himself or others.
Overall, though, I feel utter empathy for Grendel in the sense that I believe he exists at least a little bit in each one of us as a metaphysical sense of hopelessness and suffering which silently urges us to give up on searching for the goodness and meaning in life. And sadly, I know that there are people who are Grendels in this world, who might have had good intentions but became very lost and spiraled down a dangerous tunnel. And while I also feel a disliking toward him for the havoc he wreaked upon other people and animals, my distaste is more a sense of despair at the reminder of how hurt, lost and isolated some beings can become, and to what extremes that suffering and isolation can take them.
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Post by davidqin on Jul 31, 2013 22:01:31 GMT
I didn't understand Grendel at first, and to be honest, I hated him my first chapter. For example, he yells, "'Dark chasms... seize me! Seize me to your foul black bowels and crush my bones!'" (10). How am I supposed to connect with such an impulsive and almost crazed character? I had difficulty understanding Grendel's ambitions in life, for he seemed to be wasting his life away, with the episodes of rage against the ram and the sky and the chasms. The solitude of his life also struck me, and how he spent his days wandering the wilderness, looking for enjoyment all by himself. But the episode with Grendel stuck in the tree began to change my opinion of Grendel. He exclaims: "'Poor Grendel! Poor old Mama!' I wept and sobbed. 'Poor Grendel will hang here and starve to death,' I told myself, ' and no one will ever even miss him!'" (18). That changed my understanding of Grendel. He seemed much more human to me now. As children, we all get into difficult situations and cry for our parents (moms in particular!) to come and help us. Even though Grendel rails against the sky and the mountains, his crying for his mother showed a softer side that I, as a reader, could connect to.
It got better. Chapter 5 brings the dragon into the story. For the first time, Grendel is in a position of inferiority, in terms of size and strength, but also intellectual capacity. When he enters, Grendel relates, "My heart shook. His eyes stared straight at me. My knees and insides were so weak I had to drop down on all fours" (58). The dragon not only intimidates him physically, but also overwhelms Grendel with the depth of his ideas concerning life and nihilism. Seeing Grendel in this position of inferiority made him seem more relatable. It was like a new window into Grendel's inner self had opened, bypassing the tough outer shell that Grendel has put on. I was personally reminded of moments when I'm stuck on a calculus problem and I have to endure my mother's rage at my inability to integrate, while trying to make sense of the math she's trying to explain.
Finally, Grendel's fascination with the humans and their social nature should be something we all can connect with. In effect, Grendel is that outcast from society struggling to make his sincerity known by the others. I felt deep compassion for Grendel when he's so taken in by the Shaper's song and the kindness of Wealhtheow because he has never known such things in the raw wilderness. While Grendel is portrayed as a grotesque, somewhat-crazed monster, I firmly came to see him as just a rather-misguided, but very much human character.
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Post by moreno on Aug 1, 2013 0:09:35 GMT
I too am not completely sure how I view Grendel. Similar to Candido in The Tortilla Curtain, by T.C. Boyle, it is hard to distinguish between liking a character, and sympathizing with a character. However, after reading further, I have decided that I like Grendel more than I dislike him. Although he can be harsh in his thoughts and a literal monster in his actions, much of Grendel’s character is surprisingly relatable. Not only can everyone recount a time when they were the outcast, but Grendel’s longing for meaning in his life and having a relationship with his mother are also things most people can connect with. Most of all, though, his outbursts and desires for relationships are what I find make him the most likable. Golding writes:
“My mind was wild. ‘Pity,’ I moaned, ‘O pity! pity!’ I wept-strong monster with teeth like a shark’s-and I slammed the earth with such force that a seam split open twelve feet long. ‘Bastards!’ I roared. ‘Sons of bitches! Fuckers!’ Words I’d picked up from men in their rages. I wasn’t even sure what they meant, though I had an idea: defiance, rejection of the gods that, for my part, I’d known all along to be lifeless sticks. I roared with laughter, still sobbing,” (52).
Although these fits of rage and frustration can be seen as horrific and appalling, I see them as a look into Grendel’s softer side. In these moments of uncontrollable sobbing we see Grendel in an almost child-like state. He uses words he doesn’t know the meaning of and cries himself into a state of delirium, like a baby. We all have times when we are so full of frustration and hurt that we revert back to these childish bursts, and Grendel’s, although amplified, are really no different. Understanding this allows me to relate to Grendel and like him more as a character.
Another point that sticks out to me and makes me like and relate to Grendel is when he expressed his longing for relationships. From his spot in the trees Grendel looks down on the meadhalls, observing the humans interacting, the people talking and sharing. Although he expresses an annoyance for these people, it is quite clear that he also envies them. Golding writes, “‘why can’t I have someone to talk to?’ I said. The stars said nothing, but I pretended to ignore the rudeness. ‘The Sharper has people to talk to,’ I said. I wrung my fingers. ‘Hrothgar has people to talk to,” (53). Grendel clearly thirsts for companionship, someone to share and hopefully overcome his frustrations with. Human interaction is the basis for which we all live, and the fact that Grendel also longs for this companionship makes him relatable and likable. Like his fits of sadness and rage, this glimpse into Grendel’s desires highlights another soft spot that is hard to dislike.
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Post by jessicapollard on Aug 2, 2013 7:37:01 GMT
Much in the way that I enjoyed reading Bronte's Wuthering Heights for it's utterly hateable characters, I enjoy reading Grendel for it's grotesque portrayal of humanity. So far, every action and word produced by Grendel speaks to the various struggles of a selfish, internally conflicted and hypocritical populace and I love him for it. I feel the best example of this is when Grendel goes to visit the Dragon. Upon being frightened by the Dragon's foul mood, Grendel speculates: " I thought all at once about what he'd said: ' Now you know how they when they see you.' He had a point. From now on I'd stay clear of them. It was one thing to eat one from time to time- that was only natural: kept them from overpopulating, maybe starving to death come winter- but it's another thing to scare them, give them heart attacks, fill their nights with nightmares, just for sport" (Gardner 52). Grendel empathetically acknowledges the pain he has caused, makes a call to action and then fails to fulfill it as he becomes increasingly gruesome. He does this in the same way human consumers may realize their purchases are the product of unscrupulous labor, resolve to discontinue their purchases and then continue to buy products simply because it's more convenient/ the only method of resourcefulness they know of. In fact, Grendel's pattern of behavior speaks to many instances of human thought. Grendel spells this pattern out clearly, and I appreciate the blatant metaphor of his character. I find myself wondering if I could be friends with Grendel, were I extended the oppurtunity. He is intellegent and at times even considerate (although he rarely acts on it), but I feel a friendship with him would probably be more out of pity. He is like that feral cat down the street that you just know will rip your face off if you get to close but that you wish to feed and nurture. I am not finished with the book and wonder if my outlook will change.... hmmmm....
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Post by juliamoreland on Aug 11, 2013 21:59:02 GMT
Honestly, I liked Grendel in the beginning of the novel when he was hopeless and alone. This way, I did not know his potential and felt sympathy for this poor creature. As Morgan was saying, we need to differentiate between feeling sympathy for a character and then actually liking them. As the novel went on I just became frustrated with Grendel. He has so much intellectual capability, such as “Theorum: Any action (A) of the human heart must trigger an equal and opposite reaction (A1)" (113). This hints at physics knowledge and distinct observation and sensitivity to the humans condition. As the novel continues, however, he does not take full advantage of this and instead throws himself into fits of rage and anger. Knowing that Grendel has the possibility to achieve many opportunities but yet chooses to continue acting like a child makes me dislike his character. I grow further to dislike him when he fully becomes the childish and powerful beast that goes and wrecks havoc.
The part when Grendel slightly relates to a human experience is being the outcast. I can understand how many of us can connect to wanting to fit in and feeling like no one likes us. In this manner, Grendel reminds me of a teenage girl. Acting stupid and violent to get the attention of the main group. We all grow up and find our own paths, however, Grendel just gets angry and decides to manipulate. I feel that he never reaches a point of maturity and just wants attention from the town because he likes to be the center of everything.
At a few parts of the novel, Grendel is in the inferior role. One time is with the dragon, and another is in the start of the book when the villagers find him. Especially with the dragon, I do not see this inferiority and vulnerability as humanizing for Grendel. Instead, I think it is Gardner trying to keep the readers sympathetic for Grendel in his increasingly horrifying state of manipulation and evil. I feel like Grendel and I have an abusive relationship. I want to give him a chance because I feel sorry for him, so I keep coming back. Then time after time again he just proves he cannot grow up and ends up hurting someone.
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Post by haejungyoon on Aug 16, 2013 0:31:11 GMT
I did find myself pitying Grendel and sympathizing him in the beginning of the book. His inability to communicate with other creatures and the shunning he faced from the society despite his yearning for a companion surely made him look like the victim. However, I do not think his early experiences compensate for any criminal acts he performed. Whether he became a monster as the result of the society does not alter the fact that he is the descendent of Cain; Grendel was fated to be evil and he did not fail to accept his fate.
An abandoned child usually grows up, depending on whether they ever received love, to become one of the following two: kind, almost an angelic figure who have learned to love other or a villain who knows nothing but how to hate. It is clear that Grendel is the latter of the two. Grendel constantly tells the reader that society is the one to blame for his misdoings; that society prevented him from ever receiving love. Grendel is selfish to say such things. Whether he noticed or not, his mother loved him. Grendel’s mother saved her child life by risking her own (27) and she showed her way of affection, which she did by “hurl[ing] herself across the void and bury[ing] [Grendel] in her bristly fur and fat” (29). Grendel, however, was dissatisfied with his mother’s affection and withdrew from it by clawing and hurting his mother to get free (29). Grendel denied his mother’s love and blamed the world for preventing him from receiving love.
We also cannot forget that the book is written in Grendel’s perspective. I am wondering how different the book Grendel would have been written if Beowulf, not Grendel, was the one to have the “accident”. Would Grendel have mentioned of all the hardships he have faced with the humans and all of the depressing “pity-me” situations? I believe not. Just as many historical heroes are depicted in other books, Grendel would have been depicted as the legendary hero who survived epically against the evil of the human race. Although not an exact fit, Grendel well reminds me of Winston Churchill’s quote; “the history is written by the victor”.
Personally, I found Grendel more of a dislikable character. Although the society was wrong to treat a living creature with such prejudice and hatred, I believe Grendel’s own fault of accepting his fate played a bigger role in why and how he became a villain and a monster.
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Post by keelycorrigan on Aug 27, 2013 6:01:59 GMT
My heart breaks for Grendel. I despise Grendel. I fear Grendel. I cried for Grendel. I cannot decide, really, if I like Grendel. His story of meaningless and violence just aches of something so intangible and unimaginable that it is so difficult to make sense of my feelings for him.
While only acquainted with him in the first few chapters, I was irritated by is indirection and indecision. The way he would move make in forth with his feelings toward his mother and the humans he would observe and prey on bothered me throughout the book, but especially in the beginning. But as his story progresses and you get to see how truly lost he is and how truly he has been found wanting on almost every occasion. While I was always so distressed by the violence he committed against the humans, his rage and desire to overpower made total sense with the understanding of his scattered ideas about humans.
Grendel notes shortly before his demise—and I cannot be the first to quote this passage because it is quite distressing—that, “one evil deed missed is a loss for all eternity,” (146). My heart broke in two at reading this line. How horrible a being must be—or think he is—to say such a thing. The tragedy of Grendel is the way that he internalized the evil that was thrust upon him because of the perception of him by the humans. The Shaper, who he adores like a small child adores the volume of fairy-tales, paints him as a monster and as an evil being. How long has Grendel been told he is evil? How long has he known that , besides his mother, he is alone in his form and can thins loneliness be the reason why he is so sure of his presumed innate evil? Perhaps it is my predisposition to find sympathy for the rotten characters (RE: Jessie—Hello, Heathcliff, aka my obsession for a good two months of sophomore year).
And then there is the end. The end of the novel, the end of Grendel’s life, but not the end of my Romantic notion of Grendel’s goodness. The way he dies! The way he dies! The way he, in a desperate last-ditch attempt to connect with the world, wishes the world the same escape that has been granted/forced upon him. Uh! I cannot wrap my head around my feelings about Grendel! He is the greatest accumulation of opposites and complexities that I have ever had the experience to read. I love Grendel. I hate Grendel. I simply cannot decide about Grendel.
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Post by rileyhatfield on Aug 29, 2013 19:53:26 GMT
I found Grendel to be a very troubled spirit, and as a result I felt pity for him. For one thing, he is a lonely monster who has no mention of a father, and has a mother who cannot even speak to him and has basically abandoned him to fight for himself.
As I read about the young Grendel, I felt very deep empathy for him. I concluded very early on in the novel that he is more human than animal. This is in result of his manner of thinking and the complexity of his thought processes. An example of this was when he was hanging in the tree and crying out for his mother, injured and alone (Gardner 18). I pictured this happening to a young boy and it broke my heart. He didn't ask for his literal 'monstrous' life, just like a child who's diagnosed with a disability that separates him from the other children doesn't ask for that life. And just as the child can see kids his own age playing in the playground but knows he cannot because he is different, I also think that Grendel sees the humans that he wants to be like and yearns to be like them, so in turn he spends his life eating and destroying the people and land that he watches jealously over because the fact that he cant be like them makes him angry and upset. He has no idea what to do with himself and that makes me very sad for him. So in the beginning of the novel I felt so much pity for him that I ended up liking him and even vouching for him when he destroyed his first meadhall.
But in the end, I believe everyone has a choice. Grendel had such an amazing thought process that he could have made the right decision to not attack the meadhall and its people, but his jealousy took over his mind. As soon as I became aware that he was letting his jealousy get the better of him, I immediately started to dislike him because I knew that he had the choice to not let that happen.
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Post by rubyking on Sept 2, 2013 22:58:29 GMT
I have always had a strong fascination and adoration for troubled characters (every time I re-read Wuthering Heights my love for Heathcliff grows even stronger)I loved loving Grendel, I loved despising Grendel, and I think everyone can admit that there is something very sexy about tortured and intelligent thinkers. While I think many reading the novel "like" Grendel because he is alone and helpless, therefore requiring our love and a hot bowl of soup; I loved his somewhat stilted idealism about the world and our existence, his passion, and his manner of speech-- The way he articulates his thoughts and surroundings is something of immense beauty. I adored the way he described Wealtheow, a moment of purity in his darkened reality, "She was beautiful, as innocent as dawn on winter hills. She tore me apart as once the Shaper's song had done" (100). I can just imagine him spending sleepless nights under the stars, consumed by the conflicting thoughts waltzing furiously through his mind. While I feel this certain attraction toward Grendel, I doubt he is someone that could function in a long-term, committed relationship. He is the tortured and passionate lover women leave their husbands for, but there is no way he could become husband material.
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Post by Guest of honor on Sept 4, 2013 5:48:58 GMT
Nah
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