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Post by betsyrahe on Jun 22, 2013 19:05:22 GMT
I realize many people are not that far into the book yet, but I have come across the pompous Dragon in my reading(Chapter 5 pg 57 in my copy). He boasts about knowing the past, present and future and tries to explain it to Grendel. For those that have gotten to chapter 5 how do you think the Dragon's knowledge, or Grendel's experience with the dragon will influence him? SPOILERS: For those past this chapter what do you think the smell of the dragon around Grendel means?
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Post by elizabethmeyer on Jun 30, 2013 20:56:42 GMT
Personally, I was really confused by the dragon. At first, when Grendel went to see him, I thought that he wanted a question answered. But it seemed as though Grendel didn't even really know what question it was that he wanted answered, while the dragon not only knew the question but was prepared to answer it. But what really got me was when the dragon started babbling about space and time. I thought he was going to have a somewhat straightforward explanation of how dragons could see and understand the past, present and future, while "lower creatures" could only understand the past and present. When he said "We see from the mountaintop: all time, all space. We see in one instant the passionate vision and the blowout. Not that we cause things to fail, you understand." (pg 63 in my copy), I was still sort of with him. I understood that dragons can see all of space and time, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they influence all of space and time. But it was after that that I became as confused as Grendel seems to be at this point. Specifically when the dragon picked up the jug and said "'How does this jug differ from something animate?' He threw it back out of reach. 'By organization! Exactly! This jug is an absolute democracy of atoms. It has importance, or thereness, so to speak, but no Expression, or, loosely, ah-ha!-ness. Importance is primarily monistic in its reference to the universe. Limited to a finite individual occasion, importance ceases to be important. In some sense or other - we can skip the details - importance is derived from the immanence of infitude in the finite. Expression, however - listen closely now - expression is founded on the finite occasion. It is the activity of finitude impressing itself on its environment'" (pg 68). Now, while I don't pretend to understand any of that, it does strike me that this dragon is an Existentialist. I'm sure many of us remember Mrs. Aalberg talking about "chairness" in regards to Existentialism. Maybe that's what the dragon is trying to get at: the jug has jug-ness and that's what makes it special.
As for what influence the dragon might have on Grendel (I haven't read past chapter 5 at this point so this might soon be answered), I imagine the dragon might have given Grendel a new way to look at the world. That "new way" might just be that Grendel is more confused than ever - or maybe he will see the "indifferent sky" in a new light. Maybe Grendel will simply take the dragon's most straightforward and "seek out gold and sit on it" (pg 74).
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Post by jennyxu on Jul 23, 2013 1:22:34 GMT
"Futility, doom, became a smell in the air, pervasive and acrid as the dead smell after a forest fire - my scent and the world's, the scent of trees, rocks, waterways wherever I went" (75).
Smell seems to be an important sense to Grendel, one that foreshadows and reflects his attitudes and perceptions towards his relationship with the humans. The first time Grendel encounters men, he comments on the smell of their torches: "There was a smell, a fire very different from ours, pungent, painful as thistles to the nose" (23). It shows his initial fear of humans, and curiosity, as he cautiously explores and judges their differences. Then, his fear is rationalized as the humans attack him. At this point, it seems clear that he must fight back and it is only natural for him to torture and kill humans. After his visit with the dragon, the smell changes. While it was sharp and reflected the spark of his desires, now it feels heavy, like a burden. Now the smell is of a fire after it burns out. It hints to his bitter opinions towards humans and his later inner torment, as he is now unsure of his role, as his life begins to feel useless.
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Post by racheladele on Jul 26, 2013 21:14:53 GMT
It seems like every time Grendel smells the dragon, it is some sort of warning of impending doom. Before his bout with the mountain goat and the arrival of Geats, Grendel says, "the scent of the dragon is a staleness on the earth" (138). I find the entire concept of the dragon both intriguing and confusing. He seems out of place in the context of the rest of the novel. Firstly, if the dragon is real (as opposed to a figment of Grendel's imagination), why don't the villagers know he exists? I suppose he could be well hidden, far away, or have cast a spell. Secondly, what does Grendel think of the dragon? Is he like a father, a teacher, or even a god? Thirdly, why does the supposedly all-knowing dragon suggest that gluttony is the most effective way of life? And why doesn't Grendel follow this advice? Grendel sits in a dark cave on piles of bones, and dies without any more wealth.
The dragon and Grendel seem to maintain a generous level of respect for one another, even if their conversation doesn't explicitly show it. The dragon does, in fact, tell Grendel, "the essence of life is to be found in the frustrations of established order. The universe refuses the deadening influence of complete conformity" (67) and I believe that Grendel does his best not to conform. He doesn't conform to the mold of a human, an animal, or anything else. I think Grendel goes to the dragon for guidance in a moment of weakness, like an atheist going to church. Every time the smell of the dragon is in the air, it's like a reminder to Grendel that there is a higher power and order than which human he will devour next.
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