|
|
Post by emwolfram on Aug 22, 2013 22:12:36 GMT
After responding to Amy's question about Wealtheow being a possible love interest of Grendel I wanted to discuss the unusual scene that occurs at the end of chapter 7.
Grendel's initial response to Wealtheow is one of praise and fascination. "She was beautiful, as innocent as dawn on winter hills. She tore me apart as once the Shaper's song had done." (pg.100)
Grendel admired her beauty and felt almost protective towards her.
....fast forward a couple pages... "I would begin by holding her over the fire and cooking the ugly hole between her legs." (pg. 109)
Something about the queens genitals made Grendel very very angry. It seemed to shatter his previous perception of her.
On page 110 he says, "I concentrated on the memory of the ugliness between her legs (bright tears of blood)" (pg. 110)
Perhaps this means the queen was no longer a virgin and therefore in Grendel's eyes no longer pure. Maybe he saw the virginal Wealtheow as the one thing not tarnished by man.
I really just want to know what you thought of this scene. (It would be awesome to get both male and female perspective.)
What was it about Wealthrow that enamored Grendel in the first place? How did her genitalia desecrate his enchantment? Why did Gardner include this scene? And finally, is this misogynistic?
|
|
|
|
Post by avinash on Aug 24, 2013 0:00:11 GMT
Other than his mother, Grendel hasn’t really talked about any other female characters. This is because of Grendel’s nihilistic lifestyle. Wealtheow is the one exception to this rule. Grendel doesn’t want to give in to her seduction because he believes that life is meaningless and such a relationship with Wealtheow would yield no value to his existence. As a result Grendel fears her presence. “My chest was full of pain, my eyes smarted, and I was afraid--O monstrous trick against reason--I was about to sob” (100). Grendel cannot come to terms with why he feels an attraction to a member of the opposite gender.
I think Grendel feels an attraction to Wealtheow because she has something that he doesn’t. Wealtheow is good-hearted and has the ability to resolve conflicts. People come to her for consolation. Grendel on the other hand only creates commotion and bloodshed. Because she one of the only female characters he talks about he must see something different in her compared to other females. He tries to convince himself that she isn’t unique in any way. Grendel says, “So the lady [Wealtheow] would give, had given, her life for those she loved. So would any simpering, eyelash-batting female in her court, given the proper setup, the minimal condition” (102). Grendel is saying that under the optimal scenario any regular female would appear just as good-hearted as Wealtheow. Grendel realizes that he is lying to himself and starts to feel the dragon’s presence around him. This quote also shows Grendel's misogynistic attitude. He talks about other females as if they are only flirtatious beings. Because of this they pose no use to Grendel due to his view that life is meaningless.
Grendel believes that killing Wealtheow would get him respect among others for sticking to his character and beliefs (nihilism), “Grende, the truth-teacher, phantasm-tester! It was what I would be from this day forward--my commitment, my character as long as I lived…” (110). When Grendel, goes to kill Wealthow he realizes that she has the genitals of a female. He realizes, now, that there isn’t anything special about her. In response to the sight, Grendel’s nihilistic mindset kicks in and he is disgusted by what he has witnessed. Grendel has come to terms with his fear of Wealtheow and doesn’t kill her. At this point, Wealtheow is just like every other female.
|
|
|
|
Post by sammywong on Aug 26, 2013 18:02:56 GMT
I wouldn’t say Grendel’s attraction is due to the differences him and Wealtheow harbor but because of Grendel’s obsession of the human characteristics the Shaper sings of. Initially, Grendel begins to feel the attraction as Wealtheow is sacrificing herself to unite the two nations of Helmings and Scylding. Wealtheow, young and beautiful, is not attracted to the old king, but she accepts the marriage for the benefit of her people. Grendel describes how she handles the sacrifice with “mysterious calm” (100.) Wealtheow primarily exemplifies the only reason why Grendel admires the Shaper, because deep down Grendel values peace, heroism, and beauty. “She lay beside the sleeping king- I watch wherever she went, a crafty guardian, wealthy in wiles- and her eyes were open, the lashes bright with tear” (104.) Wealtheow never lets the people see her sadness and it attracts Grendel just as her childlike qualities do. Her innocence she displays is a quality Grendel values over the barbaric eminence of the others in the group.
I wouldn’t classify Grendel’s behavior as misogynous because he shows a hatred of all, not just women. Grendel, like I stated in my previous thread, seems to not approve of any show of sexuality. This is the same reason why when he is attracted to Wealtheow, he states, “She was beautiful, as innocent as dawn in winter hills” (100.) Grendel likes how Weatheow is young acting and describes her as more of a child and less of a woman. Grendel conjures up an image of Wealtheow, a self sacrificing, innocent child, and is crushed to find that she does not fully represent the Shaper’s lyrics and what Grendel wants her to be. Because Grendel finds no meaning in his own life, he clings to the meaning the Shaper puts in the human’s lives and discovers this through Wealtheow.
|
|
|
|
Post by amysohlberg on Aug 26, 2013 19:49:10 GMT
I think Grendel is initially enamored by Wealtheow's purity. Like Sammy said, he views her with the innocence of a youth: "She was like a child, her sweet face paler than the moon" (101). I find Grendel's feelings (good and bad) about Wealtheow really interesting, because they depict a similar struggle that happens in us all the time.
When we hear them applied to ourselves, adjectives like "naive" and "innocent" are basically insults. We spend a large part of our teenage years searching for thrills in things that we know might be "bad" but we partake in anyway, because it's fun and exciting. As we grow older, however, we realize that chasing after these things often comes with consequences: pain, addiction, depression, heartbreak, and death. Grendel, for example, hunts humans for the pleasure of terrorizing and eating them but after the meal he is left lonely and isolated: "snatched seven of them from their beds, slit them open and devoured them on the spot. I felt a strange, unearthly joy... But also, as never before, I was alone" (79-80).
Children, in their innocence, don't usually understand the damage that is caused by mankind's mistakes, so they live in a world of ignorant bliss. I think Grendel is viewing Wealtheow from the perspective of one well acquainted with both the pleasures and the pain of the world, and he sees her innocence as something to be protected. Even though we briefly enjoy the pleasures of sin, we still view the purity of children as something beautiful because I think we know deep down that our world is supposed to be innocent. Grendel sees Wealtheow's purity as something valuable, "priceless among the Scylding treasures" (105) but I think he sees her genitalia as a symbol of her fallen innocence. Not her vagina itself, but the fact that she has slept with Hrothgar makes her unclean to Grendel.
I think Gardner included this scene to show his mourning over the fallen world. In a way, Wealtheow was Grendel's only hope, the only light that stood apart from the hopelessness of the world he had known, but even she lost her purity. I think Gardner is just lamenting the fact that mankind cannot help but destroy every beautiful and pure thing it sees.
|
|
|
|
Post by cassiecumberland on Aug 29, 2013 20:34:07 GMT
Although I most certainly agree with the comments left on this fourm about Wealtheow's tainted image, in the eyes of Grendel, because of her acquired "impurity", I also would like to redirect this to focus more on Grendel's state of mind when depositing this comment. Could Gardner also be emphasizing the pure immaturity of Grendel's mind and the naivety toward his undiscovered feelings of lust and love? Grendel, after witnessing Wealtheow's beauty, quotes "... I was afraid I was about to sob. I wanted to smash things. Bring down the night with my howl of rage." Grendel responds to Wealtheow's beauty like a typical male and cannot handle his human-like qualities. He grows frustrated with his lust for Wealtheow and in retaliation he tries to turn towards destroying the things around him- because they're beautiful. All in all, it seems that no, Grendel is not a misogynist, he is immature and incapable of dealing with his emotions- not only of love, but generally every emotion. I agree with Avinash about Grendel's attraction toward Wealthreow rendering on his recognition that she has grace, love, kindness and patience- when Grendel surley doesn't. I, however, believe that Gardner put Wealthreow within the novel to enhance the reader's focus on Grendel's immaturity and bitterness.
I agree with Amy about how having sex with Hrothgar tainted her image in Grendel's eyes. Grendel rejects everything human-like or desirable because he despises the world and life itself. Grendel saw that Wealthreow was no longer some angelic idol, but however a seductress and a being who succumbs to the wants of humanity.
|
|
